need help - maple chlorotic leaves, epsom salt concentration?

[Deleted member 21616]

The leaves on my kashima maples (and only my kashima maples) are chlorotic. It was recommended that I spray the trees with epsom salt, by diluting it in water.

This is the method i want to apply

simple question -- does anybody know what concentration I should be using?

The person who diagnosed the issue and recommended the treatment could not recall the concentration off the top of his head.

Thank you,
Derek



@0soyoung @AlainK @markyscott @just.wing.it maybe?

 

[LanceMac10]

The person who diagnosed the issue and recommended the treatment could not recall the concentration off the top of his head.

.....details, details......


Give them a chance to start actually being a leaf. They'll green up soon. They don't mind a little Miracid fert mixed in between "normal" fert application. Liquid fert a little more "bio-available" I figure.


......c'mon man, the mix ratio is the WHOLE thing, the only thing you need to remember!!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) are used when you think your tree is suffering from magnesium deficiency. However there are other causes that create the same symptoms. Magnesium deficiency is an uncommon condition - because magnesium is usually broadly available in trace amounts in most fertilizers.

It is far more likely that your soil pH is too high - which is causing your tree to struggle a little bit in taking up magnesium (and possibly also iron and manganese) that is already present. Just providing more magnesium isn't necessarily going to solve the problem.

I agree with @LanceMac10 that the best approach is probably to use a soil acidifier as part of your soil maintenance. However without needing to guess, you can simply test your soil pH to determine if it is too high. Maples like their soil in the 5.5 - 6.0 range.

 

[River's Edge]

The leaves on my kashima maples (and only my kashima maples) are chlorotic. It was recommended that I spray the trees with epsom salt, by diluting it in water.

This is the method i want to apply

simple question -- does anybody know what concentration I should be using?

The person who diagnosed the issue and recommended the treatment could not recall the concentration off the top of his head.

Thank you,
Derek

View attachment 242752

@0soyoung @AlainK @markyscott @just.wing.it maybe?

The dwarf cultivars have a tendency to show stress quickly when the soil condition become less open due to root bound or other compaction issues. Also if the apex is weaker due to not keeping in check the basal dominance. Because it is happening only with the Kashima, i would check these aspects first. I am assuming that you are using similar watering techniques and soil components for your other maples that are not experiencing difficulty. Also assuming the same fertilizer in general.
That make me think along the same lines as those who already responded. Look for a simpler cause. Just some thoughts.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@Bonsai Nut

thanks for that helpful info!

i live downtown montreal, so i test my PH every monday because u never know! I attached the result i got right now. Picture might be off, but there’s no doubt it’s in the 5.5-6 range.

@River's Edge i like that idea!

out of 75+ trees, 25+ cultivars, all using the same water, same substrate, all using biogold, only 3 kashima are affected, and 1 kiyohime ever so slightly - all dwarfs!

they were all repotted in early spring, so not root bound, and their roots were cut back less than others

it definitely affects the entire tree top to bottom

there are people who spray epsom salt disolved in wayer every 2 weeks routinely, including the montreal botanical gardens — i was under the assumption that it was a regular thing: either spray epsom or add magnesium to fertilization regimen

 

[River's Edge]

Ok , then try this approach. Give the cultivars a bit more shade for a couple of weeks, reduce the basal branching a bit to strengthen the apex if you think it is required. Visual check on the extensions throughout the tree for balance. Watch the watering to ensure that they are not being overwatered. Let them dry out a bit before resuming very careful watering. Follow the approach of watering thoroughly and then not watering until needed. Soil conditions damp not wet. This assumes a well draining open mix of soil components.
PS: the PH test kit (liquid drop) on the low range yellow color will not show if it is below 5.5.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

will do thank you Frank!

it sounds like epsom treatment is obscure and unlikely to be the solution in all but the rarest circumstancea?

 

[River's Edge]

will do thank you Frank!

it sounds like epsom treatment is obscure and unlikely to be the solution in all but the rarest circumstancea?

Let us know how they progress, i suspect you should notice a change within a week or two.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

i just realized, we’ve been getting A LOT of rain. Could this (overwatering) be the cause? (Again, affecting only my dwarfs)

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@Bonsai Nut @River's Edge @0soyoung

River Woods (a maple and bonsai guy california) on facebook is recommending 7% iron chelate sprayed on the tree, and on the soil. dose once, and wait and see

As well as epsom salt on the soil (not the leaves), dose every 6 weeks

any thoughts?

i posted these leaves in a few places to gather as much info as possible - i don't mean to go against what any of you are recommending, just trying to collect and share all the ideas in once place to make the most thorough plan

 

[0soyoung]

It is a good way to test if it is iron deficiency as the leaves will respond quickly, much more quickly that as a substrate amendment. However, it will need to be administered to the substrate/soil to be long lasting.


btw, in my cool climate I sometimes see leaves like yours in early spring and they green up later when it is a bit warmer. I've had other species such as bitter orange appear very chlorotic in my cool spring temperatures and also green up later. It is like certain species/varieties require a bit more warmth to fabricate chlorophyll (I have spent no time studying the thermodynamics of this rather complicated organic chemistry to know if this is a valid notion --> brainstorming and leaving it at that).

Like @Bonsai Nut said, it is rare to encounter magnesium deficiency, but I know a nursery guy who was taught by his predecessor to toss a small handful of Epsom salt at the base of every Japanese maple. So he just does it and believes he must, like anything we've learned at our mother's kneecap (unquestioned beliefs). I also commonly come across recommendations to dump a handful on Hinoki's, claiming it gives them a nice blue color. That magic never happened for me. Another local nurseryman dumps prodigious amounts of it on the root zone of his roses and swears that is why their foliage is so deep green. His roses do indeed have magnificent green foliage, but I've not seen it happen much with our roses. So, I am skeptical. Maybe one must be a believer to see an effect. I dunno. Just throwing more salt in the soil doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

 

[River's Edge]

@Bonsai Nut @River's Edge @0soyoung

River Woods (a maple and bonsai guy california) on facebook is recommending 7% iron chelate sprayed on the tree, and on the soil. dose once, and wait and see

As well as epsom salt on the soil (not the leaves), dose every 6 weeks

any thoughts?

i posted these leaves in a few places to gather as much info as possible - i don't mean to go against what any of you are recommending, just trying to collect and share all the ideas in once place to make the most thorough plan

When trying to ascertain the effect it is important to isolate the variables. Otherwise you are left in the dark as to what worked or what did not work. Supplements are assuming a specific condition that may not be present. In fact is not present in the rest of your plants under the same care. My reading of your description and pictures illustrates more of an environmental issue that could affect certain cultivars. Moisture, Shade, or as Osoyoung suggested temperature developmental variation. if you have the japanese Maple book by Peter Adams, check out his comments on dwarf cultivars and special care tips to keep in mind. I have had several experiences similar to what Osoyoung suggests when new growth experiences cooler damper conditions in the spring. You could also split the group so you can track specific response to different treatment if you wish to experiment.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

wow guys thanks a lot solid advice! really appreciate it!

Going to check peter adams this evening thank you

Thank you @River's Edge @0soyoung !! ????

 

[Bonsai Nut]

i live downtown montreal, so i test my PH every monday because u never know!

I dream to have water like yours Mine is 8.0 - 8.5 out of the tap.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

I dream to have water like yours Mine is 8.0 - 8.5 out of the tap.

but do you have the luxury of city lights and noise, dust from traffic, and nosey neighbours who routinely call the police because you’re over the allowed quota of cannabis plants and even the police think your maples are drugs?

LOL

 

[Bonsai Nut]

but do you have the luxury of city lights and noise, dust from traffic, and nosey neighbours who routinely call the police because you’re over the allowed quota of cannabis plants and even the police think your maples are drugs?

Just remind them... the leaf on the flag is a maple

 

[Dorky_gearhead]

I'm thinking PH lockout. Just my $.02

 

[AlainK]

Here, the water is very hard and we often have pbs like chlorosis.

I tried various things, epsom salts don't work that well. Here the best, most efficient products are those that contain chelated iron.

I think that this sort of pb is not only a matter of pH, it probably depends also on what minerals are in your soil, how they can chemically interact, etc.

Saved this link that I think is a good start for what seems to me a very difficult aspect of cultivation to fully master :

http://www.canna-uk.com/deficiency-guide

 

[AlainK]

the luxury of city lights

Back in my early 20s

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Thanks @AlainK really appreciate the info and the link!

I sprayed with chelated iron yesterday, and followed the advice listed above

going to observe the progress carefully over the next week

maybe it's just in my head, but the leaves seem to look better already, 24 hours after the spray