Need advice - American Beech
- Thread starter JohnnyUtah
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Gabler
Masterpiece
For now, just let it grow. Beech need about two years after collection to regain vigor before you do too much with them, though this is a young tree, so just a single year might be enough.
I made that exact mistake and killed several. The ones I've left alone until recently are thriving. Do your beech a favor and find faster-growing species to mess around with while you're waiting.
I made that exact mistake and killed several. The ones I've left alone until recently are thriving. Do your beech a favor and find faster-growing species to mess around with while you're waiting.
JohnnyUtah
Seedling
What do you recommend?
Gabler has offered you good advice... Beech are not easy...they typically only grow one time per year so they are extremely slow to develop. At this point I would encourage you to grow as many branches as possible over the next several years....at that point you will be ready to ask design questions. In the meantime collect yourself some hornmbeams or elms....or find yourself some trident maples...these will develop faster and offer your more opportunities to begin designing your trees sooner.
Kevin1968
Yamadori
Elms and trident maples grow fast and are a lot more tolerant of abuse. They still require care but easier to maintain and tend to recover faster. In my opinion.
Gabler
Masterpiece
I agree, but I would phrase it differently. I wouldn't say that beech trees are not easy. I would simply say they're slow. That is to say, as a beginner, I have had no trouble keeping established beech trees alive, but many of my first trees were beeches, and many of my newer trees are far ahead of those beeches in development.
Beech trees' horticultural requirements are simple. Use acid fertilizer and give them plenty of water, and they'll be healthy. I don't have problems with diseases, they heal over their wounds quickly, and they don't require much in the way of maintenance. They just need a bit of extra time to recover after rootwork, and they only put out one strong flush of growth per year.
Kevin1968
Yamadori
My apologies for inferring that Beech is not easy.
Horticulturally what you say maybe true but as bonsai subjects you are just wrong... they are one of the most challenging trees I've encountered...if they are easy as bonsai subjects where are all the good AB bonsai? In 35 years, I've seen less than a handful that are truly good trees! If you want to grow beech bonsai use European or Japanese Beech... neither are easily sourced but both are far better bonsai subjects...
PerryB
Shohin
I agree with this.
@Gabler is correct about patience and waiting at least 2 years to do any root work or training-- AND I would grow this baby in ground a few years, too.
Beaches ARE very slow to ratify and back-bud. 4 years on with my last yamadori, I finally this year got leaf reduction and back buds.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Thats what its all about. Having a constant conveyor belt of material to work on throughout the year. Went out and bought a Hornbeam today, so I can stop fiddling with my Beeches for a min.
Gabler
Masterpiece
You're absolutely right. That's definitely an important distinction to make. When I say they're not hard, I'm purely speaking about horticultural requirements. Most of us relative newcomers to the hobby are more focused on keeping trees healthy than we are focused on developing "truly good trees."
That said, I've been messing around with American beech for a several years now, and through my experimental efforts on what I call my "practice trees," I've found they respond to techniques used on European beech in a similar manner to European beech. I would agree it is very hard to get them to ramify and reduce, but I'm not yet convinced they're any harder (or easier) to develop into bonsai compared to their European counterparts.
I think your logic is sound. If there's few of a species seen as bonsai, there's probably a reason for it. That said, I wouldn't assume it's because they're outright bad for bonsai. It could as easily be explained by their scarcity in the nursery trade, the abundance of European beech in the nursery trade, the long development timeframe, and the challenge of finding collectable trees in the wild. That's something I aim to find out.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I'd agree. American beech are not easy bonsai subjects. They are extremely slow. Once you understand how slow, you understand how to work on them (mostly single flush of growth, difficult ramification, scar easily, large leaves --that can be reduced, but only with knowledgeable techniques, etc.). There are a handful of really good American beech bonsai. One of the best examples I've seen is a tree in the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum (donated by local Maryland bonsai artist Fred Mies). Great ramification and leaf reduction on it, as well as a great collected trunk.
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Gabler
Masterpiece
That particular tree has been my inspiration to get better at bonsai for some time now.
JohnnyUtah
Seedling
Thank you to everyone this is definitely helpful insight. I have a couple of Tridents and a few other trees to keep me busy in the mean time. I have this other collected beech photo below. I feel like I know the answer but would you recommend putting them both back in the ground for a couple+ years? If so would you recommend placing a board or tile under the roots to prevent a tap root from forming, trying to help radial rooting as well? Or, is beech not going to respond well to this? I live on a few acres and have a good spot to get a a bunch of trees in the ground.
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PerryB
Shohin
I would definitely put them back in the ground with a board (or better: a 12x12 ceramic tile) underneath.
I just bought a carton of UGLY ceramic tiles at Home Depot for 59 cents each. The trees don't care if they're ugly and I'm burying the tiles, so I don't care either!
Gabler
Masterpiece
Growing them out in the ground is smart. Their large-ish leaves, fast healing of wounds, and poor ramification mean they lend themselves well to larger bonsai. You certainly could grow a small beech, and that would shorten the development timeframe somewhat, but it seems to me you're better off not fighting a tree's natural growth habit, and instead using its quirks to your advantage where possible.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Not sure i'd put this one in the ground, maybe I opt for a tall, slender, elegant tree. Have you been looking at other Beech trees in the search bar? Mach5 had a tall slender one
JohnnyUtah
Seedling
Would you recommend waiting to transplant in spring?
Gabler
Masterpiece
I would not mess with the roots until spring. Beech are always late to leaf out, so you have a pretty big window in which to mess with the roots before the buds start to pop open.
603bonsai
Sapling
sorry if I’m highjacking a thread and should have started a new one instead—new to the forum and bonsai!
I’ve got two American beech’s that I have been prepping in ground for about three years pics of those two are attached. I’m planning on collecting and potting them this March (first two pics).
However I was out in the woods today and came across something I thought was a gem and was essentially falling out of the hillside so I decided to collect it despite the time of year and lack of preparedness to do so (last 4 pics).
I’ve got a lot of experience collecting tress and transplanting for permaculture purposes (including American beech), but this is my first bonsai pull. I trimmed a single large root but left the other. Lots of fine root mass for a beech! I potted using various soils and substrates I had on hand and did my best to mimic bonsai mix (which I didn’t have on hand). Flipped the growth direction for a planned cascade style.
So, how dumb am I to do this with a beech, at the wrong time of year, and without the right supplies on hand? The specimens looks awesome to me and I think has the potential to be something special many years from now, but I am basing that on gut and no experience. What’s the group’s thoughts? If you agree it’s a good find, what can/should I do to salvage my impatient collection?
I’ve got two American beech’s that I have been prepping in ground for about three years pics of those two are attached. I’m planning on collecting and potting them this March (first two pics).
However I was out in the woods today and came across something I thought was a gem and was essentially falling out of the hillside so I decided to collect it despite the time of year and lack of preparedness to do so (last 4 pics).
I’ve got a lot of experience collecting tress and transplanting for permaculture purposes (including American beech), but this is my first bonsai pull. I trimmed a single large root but left the other. Lots of fine root mass for a beech! I potted using various soils and substrates I had on hand and did my best to mimic bonsai mix (which I didn’t have on hand). Flipped the growth direction for a planned cascade style.
So, how dumb am I to do this with a beech, at the wrong time of year, and without the right supplies on hand? The specimens looks awesome to me and I think has the potential to be something special many years from now, but I am basing that on gut and no experience. What’s the group’s thoughts? If you agree it’s a good find, what can/should I do to salvage my impatient collection?
