Need a little help and opinions with over grown juniper!

[Daniel son STL]

I figure this would be the front next repot. Just reported this last spring though so gonna be a while!

So I’ve got this juniper from a bnut member a few years back. Haven’t done much to it. Wired a cpl branches when I first got it, pulled a few others with some guy wire and have trimmed back once or twice. It’s over grown and not really headed in any good direction, but it’s health is good! I’m not sure if I’m over feeding or maybe some of these bottom branches aren’t getting efficient light....

Next post

 

[Daniel son STL]

Or maybe I just have a variety this is more elongated.

But the top growth seems more compact probably due to light.

So I’m looking to point this tree in some sort of direction. It’s an informal upright. When I look at junipers I always see pads. I did just read that 3-part pad development tutorial for junipers. Good read btw!

I’m just not sure I see this tree having pads and looking Japanese. To me... this looks like a regular tree I’d find in the park down the street, no crazy bends or twists, just a natural American style. And I like that. Thats just what I see. Maybe others can see something different. Not really sure where to start other cleaning it up a bit, losing a cpl branches and pruning back a tad and just see where I go from there.

Any advise is more than welcome and appreciated! I’m layed up for the next cpl weeks so it’s definitely getting a makeover.

If anybody knows what type of junny this is please do tell.

Thanks

 

[Daniel son STL]

I like this juniper a lot. Dosent appear to have individual pads, just a canopy. Maybe this person is going for pads in the future, not sure.

I think my tree might be better off with one big canopy as opposed to pads.

Lmk your thoughts

 

[Mayank]

Nice tree. I think it has good potential. My personal preference for the example you showed above would be to have more refinement. I think I'd vote pads for your tree over a canopy. Just my 0.02

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I see a pfizer/media juniper with a year of good growth. They (pfizers) grow fast, they're vigorous and forgiving but very hard to style. Both because of their tendency to grow juvenile foliage in shaded places (and after heavy cuts) as well as the two-dimensionality of their foliage. Pads are hard to make in those, way harder than regular chinese junipers. The foliage habit - as long as you don't have a sabina phenotype - is long and spindly by nature. I think(!) you could direct this in a sense by knocking down the amount of nitrogen in your fertilizer and increasing sun intensity. But not everyone has the luxury of being able to do that.
I think it's a pfizer because I have a few of those myself and I've spent two years trying to tame them. The bark flakes, the needle foliage and the color and thinnish growth look a lot like the ones in my back yard.


I think the best approach with any juniper is to just blindly start wiring it. As soon as you're finished, you'll probably have caught a vibe of where this tree wants to go. At least for the basic structure. You can try to make pads later, but as I've said, they'll probably ruin the technique by pushing out juvenile needle foliage which goes on for an inch or so before reverting to adult scale foliage when left alone. If you're not going for pads, then I guesstimate it's going to look a bit shaggy in the end. If that's alright with you, then go for it!

Some of the weaker branches could sure use some extra sunlight, so no matter your decisions, I think wiring it out will have positive effects on the entire tree.

 

[bwaynef]

My recommendation, as with any juniper you don't know where to start on, is to spend some time cleaning it. Remove the stuff hanging down, clear out crotch growth (that you absolutely know you're not going to cut back to), and then 1/8-1/4" from the crotch.

By that point, you'll likely have figured out where your main branches will need to go ...and possibly which ones need to be removed.

I'd recommend wiring every major and secondary branch either into their final positions (if you've figured out where those are ...and have enough growth) or wire it so that the branches can receive adequate light in preparation for a more refined styling next year.

 

[bwaynef]

wire it so that the branches can receive adequate light in preparation for a more refined styling next year.

That’s what I just did.

 

[Japonicus]

I love this tree.
I would wire now and cut back next year, to just outside of the fork on the branch (last pic post #1) the guy wire is on
repeating throughout the tree shoving back the thick growth, beginning the foliage pads back closer.
Some junipers will back bud strongly at intersections when cut back. It takes perpetual care as such to build pads
or as @Wires_Guy_wires put it, tame the design. The sooner vertical and lower growth is dealt with the better.
I just would leave strength in the lateral growth this time of year, and hopefully it is well fed up to now, so that when you begin
styling it will respond well.

 

[Japonicus]

I've been trying to tame the branches into pads on this unknown 22" Chinese juniper some time now.
The foliage gets more coarse than your variety, but lends itself to the same issue if trying
to develop pads on it. It seems as though a taller design helps, much like a dissectum JM.
This one's past due to be cleaned up and wired.

I have a blue pfitzer out front that's ripe for collecting, and the foliage on it is more self supporting than yours.


This was November 2008 (blue Pfitzer) and is quite grown beyond this stature now.
I am reluctant to harvest it as it breaks my skin out, unlike other junipers I have.
Save for the Sargent juniper that needs harvesting but is surrounded by poison ivy
growing from its nebari. The foliage on this pfitzer just seems more supportive, than what
I'm used to with them. Nailing down a specific cultivar is really difficult often.

Here are 3 different golden varieties all similar all different

Sea of Gold on the Left, then Gold lace and Gold Tip. Taming may not be in the cards for the Gold Tip on the right.
It could be we have to maintain a good portion of the natural trait of "shagginess", but like I said, I really like this tree of yours

Your branches and root contact points with the wire should be better protected
like some silicone airline tubing or something to smooth out the harsh indention that follows growth.

 

[Daniel son STL]

Thanks for the advise everyone. Yeah this tree is most definitely shaggy. I actually removed quit a bit of foliage bc it was so leggy, cutting everything back to hopefully achieve some good back budding and tighter foliage.

I thought about wiring now and cutting back later but I figure the elongated branches aren’t going to fix themselves, nor am I going to wire them lol

This is it thinned and cleaned out, mostly wired and pruned back pretty hard



Back in full sun. Gonna try some fert that’s lighter on nitrogen and hope for tighter foliage growth

 

[leatherback]

Welcome to the foliage nightmare.
On this one I throughout the season take out runners, which result in side-sprouts.

 

[Japonicus]

das beautiful!
The one lowest larger branch on the right, where the wire is coiled so close between the spirals,
is in need of attention however. The spirals should be at ~45º, so if the gauge doesn't hold some 10 or 8 gauge copper wire
might do the job, but that's the best place on this juniper for a guy wire actually.

At least balance the right with the left side foliage, including branch angle.
I'm curious if that one branch beside or behind the said lower right branch should face sort of back of tree
to dissolve the circle it creates as those 2 branches interplay. Out of sorts it is.

 

[wireme]

I like this juniper a lot. Dosent appear to have individual pads, just a canopy. Maybe this person is going for pads in the future, not sure.

I think my tree might be better off with one big canopy as opposed to pads.

Lmk your thoughts

Heya, that’s mine, I’m glad you like it. You’re wondering if I’m going for pads in the future?

Me too!
It is currently within a cycle of foliage maintenance growth and pruning, shooting for tighter growth, more ramification to work with. Then, I guess we will see, I’m definitely not after very dense pads that look like they were sheared into a perfect silhouette. More pad’ish though sure, most definitely more negative spaces/ separation between the foliage groups. What I did there was more of a development styling than a show styling. I may have grouped things together into a more pad like look and trimmed away more errant tendrils otherwise, but I left it spread out and temporarily held onto some foliage that I plan to remove.
So, you can always lay it all out separately to let light in throughout, it’s good for development anyways and naturally gives the full canopy look. Later with whatever density you manage to achieve you can group it into pads and see what you like better. That’s more or less my plan with the example tree.

I do really like the open airy look that can be achieved with junipers with sparser foliage. It takes a lot of very fine wire to pull it off though.

It’s a very nice tree you have there, I look forward to updates.

 

[wireme]

Rocky Mountain Juniper [ #003 ]

This is an RMJ collected by Andy Smith circa 1998. In 2000 I purchased the tree directly from him at the MidAtlantic Convention. Afterwards, the tree spent several years in my garden freely growing without doing much with the exception of some pruning. Originally this juniper had a strong lean...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Daniel son STL]

Welcome to the foliage nightmare.
On this one I throughout the season take out runners, which result in side-sprouts.

View attachment 265181View attachment 265180

Haha jeez there’s no stopping it!

Nice tree btw

 

[Daniel son STL]

View attachment 265194
das beautiful!
The one lowest larger branch on the right, where the wire is coiled so close between the spirals,
is in need of attention however. The spirals should be at ~45º, so if the gauge doesn't hold some 10 or 8 gauge copper wire
might do the job, but that's the best place on this juniper for a guy wire actually.

At least balance the right with the left side foliage, including branch angle.
I'm curious if that one branch beside or behind the said lower right branch should face sort of back of tree
to dissolve the circle it creates as those 2 branches interplay. Out of sorts it is.

Thanks for the advise!

Spirals are so tight on that branch bc I have a cpl wires wrapped around it to go separate ways at the fork. Definitely a few questionable branches I don’t know what to do with as of yet. Got a few branches about 5”s long with one or two little needles at the end in hopes of survival and back budding lol

And yes the foliage needs better balance for sure. Wanted to keep thinning the other side to match but was worried about the overall amount I removed and don’t want the tree to be ask risk so I just stopped there.

I’ll balance it more though if you guys think the I haven’t removed too much already...

Thanks

 

[Daniel son STL]

Heya, that’s mine, I’m glad you like it. You’re wondering if I’m going for pads in the future?

Me too!
It is currently within a cycle of foliage maintenance growth and pruning, shooting for tighter growth, more ramification to work with. Then, I guess we will see, I’m definitely not after very dense pads that look like they were sheared into a perfect silhouette. More pad’ish though sure, most definitely more negative spaces/ separation between the foliage groups. What I did there was more of a development styling than a show styling. I may have grouped things together into a more pad like look and trimmed away more errant tendrils otherwise, but I left it spread out and temporarily held onto some foliage that I plan to remove.
So, you can always lay it all out separately to let light in throughout, it’s good for development anyways and naturally gives the full canopy look. Later with whatever density you manage to achieve you can group it into pads and see what you like better. That’s more or less my plan with the example tree.

I do really like the open airy look that can be achieved with junipers with sparser foliage. It takes a lot of very fine wire to pull it off though.

It’s a very nice tree you have there, I look forward to updates.

Yeah I figured your tree was still in development. Looks good the way it is though. I’m sure it will look better in time with more ramification and structured pads though!

Thanks for the kind words and advise!

 

[Japonicus]

There isn’t much left to balance, just one spot on the right.
Thing is, we can’t see how that branch that creates the circle in the fork of the trunk
creates foliage on the right side, so it may just be that if that branch were fixed
that the balance already exists. Does that make sense? One branch bends out of character
with the one next to it and creates a circle there.
Caution! If you just wired that branch that needs adjusting and put that bend into it
recently, readjusting May kill the branch if done all at once right now.
Otherwise if the bend already existed there then it should be fine to move it now.

 

[Daniel son STL]

There isn’t much left to balance, just one spot on the right.
Thing is, we can’t see how that branch that creates the circle in the fork of the trunk
creates foliage on the right side, so it may just be that if that branch were fixed
that the balance already exists. Does that make sense? One branch bends out of character
with the one next to it and creates a circle there.
Caution! If you just wired that branch that needs adjusting and put that bend into it
recently, readjusting May kill the branch if done all at once right now.
Otherwise if the bend already existed there then it should be fine to move it now.

Having a hard time figuring out exactly what branch or area you speak of

 

[Japonicus]

Having a hard time figuring out exactly what branch or area you speak of

Sure thing, that's why I ask if it made sense can be difficult in text.

So here's a thumbnail of it. Also there's a wires end...at the shoulder of the branch
which has the excessive windings, where it's typical to be at a wires mid point,
rendering that particular wire ineffective,
and is why I suggested that being the one branch, that needed a guy wire.
I know a wire has to end or begin somewhere, and with practice will get better.
That said, I have to ask if you've heard of the tutorial by Colin Lewis on wiring bonsai?
Link > https://shop.mybluprint.com/gardening/classes/bonsai-wiring-essentials/35341