My nursery stock Quercus Palustris Pin Oak

[MMJNICE]

This is a progression thread that is open to opinion of styling and care of this tree. I bought this nursery stock tree 4 years ago with it being little more then a long 6 foot stick in a pot with a mass of foliage 3/4th up the trunk. First thing I did was hard chop down to 13" inches to a shoot and tried to develop branching with zero succes. For the first year nothing really happened. Next spring i repotted the tree into the current pot in Acadama and bonsai chunky bonsai soil from an online store that was heavy in lava and pumice with a pretty severe root pruning for an oak and uncovered the very wide but weird base with two thick roots kinda crossing each other before fine roots that could sustained the tree where discovered. Over the next couple of years i learned that if I let the tree run a bit with longer shoots I could cut back and get finer ramification back behind the cut points. Doing all the cuts on the tree at one time to encourage a second flush somewhat partially defoliating the tree but leaving the leafs behind the cuts untouched. Doing selective pruning didn't give me good results by cutting one shoot and not another. With this technique slowly I begin getting branches and at most three flushes of growth a session. I wish I took pictures when I first started the tree but to be honest I didn't see this tree for having any promise. I've definitely learned that little by little if you keep at a tree you will hammer out a fairly presentable tree that resembles a bonsai if you don't give up. This tree all of a sudden started to look like a decent representative in miniature of what this trees look like growing in the open ground. Sort of a flame tree shape but with a slant.
I know it needs more work and branches on the right side of this picture that's something I'll be working on this coming growing season. Also the root base is covered to start a decent root spread even though it's got a weird base nice radial roots are still possible with this tree and I'm going to try. Also not sure what side i like more or what angle. The more straight up and down or slanting at its current angle. the tree is definitely a work in progress. But i see a decent future for it.

 

[Colorado]

Cool, can’t say that I’ve seen too many pin oak bonsai. Nice work!

I definitely prefer the angle in that first photo. Looks the most natural to me.

 

[MMJNICE]

Cool, can’t say that I’ve seen too many pin oak bonsai. Nice work!

I definitely prefer the angle in that first photo. Looks the most natural to me.

The first picture is the current front of the tree. But still think the second angle has a potential for becoming the new front because the base looks less awkward and doesn't look like someone who's about to pee pee on them selves.. haha... as weird as the tree it kinda still works for me ,,,my daughter thinks it looks like a ballerina doing some kind of pose.

 

[Shibui]

my daughter thinks it looks like a ballerina doing some kind of pose.

I see someone climbing over a wire fence.

 

[Gabler]

I think your first step should be to fix the roots. In the picture below, you'll see the root collar circled in red. Everything above that line is stem tissue. Everything below that line is root tissue. It is pretty much impossible to layer anything above that line, because oaks refuse to grow root tissue from the stem area. Below that line, oaks can sprout new roots. I would recommend that you layer the roots below the root collar in order to start building your future nebari. Be sure to bury the root collar itself, since it contains undifferentiated tissue, which can sprout both roots and stems. If you can get new roots at or below the root collar, you will significantly advance the tree.



Here's what I'd be aiming for:

 

[MMJNICE]

I think your first step should be to fix the roots. In the picture below, you'll see the root collar circled in red. Everything above that line is stem tissue. Everything below that line is root tissue. It is pretty much impossible to layer anything above that line, because oaks refuse to grow root tissue from the stem area. Below that line, oaks can sprout new roots. I would recommend that you layer the roots below the root collar in order to start building your future nebari. Be sure to bury the root collar itself, since it contains undifferentiated tissue, which can sprout both roots and stems. If you can get new roots at or below the root collar, you will significantly advance the tree.

View attachment 581666

Here's what I'd be aiming for:

View attachment 581667

So you would chop the trunk at the below the top red line and bury below the the root collar as you called it? My friend said something like that about chopping the tree if that's what the top red line is Indicating. I do like the structure above the root collar as it stands but would like a better root spread. As much as it gives the tree some different vibes I would much rather have a traditional root structure. I'm a little worried about doing something as extreme as cutting a ring around the root collar forcing roots to grow because for what I thought oaks don't really airlayer that great. The roots in that potion of the trunk where very stringy and not enough to warrant me to stop digging for more substantial amounts of roots. For now I can deal with the roots. I'm not a big fan of exposed roots so having one or two isn't really a bad thing for me. But time will tell if I decide to get better roots I'm more wondering if the top red line is Indicating a trunk chop and develop the tree from the remaining two branches under the line. And that would most likely mean carving because pin oaks heal horribly. That one branch I removed 3 years ago isn't healing..... like at all. I don't know if some kinda of special cut paste will help but regular cut past didn't do squat. But now that i look at it i can see where your going with that chop if that's what you meant. Definitely is something to think about but it heals so slow.

 

[The Barber]

So you would chop the trunk at the below the top red line and bury below the the root collar as you called it? My friend said something like that about chopping the tree if that's what the top red line is Indicating. I do like the structure above the root collar as it stands but would like a better root spread. As much as it gives the tree some different vibes I would much rather have a traditional root structure. I'm a little worried about doing something as extreme as cutting a ring around the root collar forcing roots to grow because for what I thought oaks don't really airlayer that great. The roots in that potion of the trunk where very stringy and not enough to warrant me to stop digging for more substantial amounts of roots. For now I can deal with the roots. I'm not a big fan of exposed roots so having one or two isn't really a bad thing for me. But time will tell if I decide to get better roots I'm more wondering if the top red line is Indicating a trunk chop and develop the tree from the remaining two branches under the line

Oaks don't air layer from the stem, the roots will produce roots though is what @Gabler is saying. You'll cut the bark ring low, apply rooting hormone, and then bury it in more soil. The root collar he pointed out is the dividing line between root and trunk/stem tissue.

 

[Gabler]

Oaks don't air layer from the stem, the roots will produce roots though is what @Gabler is saying. You'll cut the bark ring low, apply rooting hormone, and then bury it in more soil. The root collar he pointed out is the dividing line between root and trunk/stem tissue.

Exactly. Peel off a ring BELOW the root collar. As for healing chop wounds, there are cut pastes with hormones to promote callus growth, but Quercus palustris will heal wounds on its own if there is enough growth above the wound.

 

[BrianBay9]

So you would chop the trunk at the below the top red line and bury below the the root collar as you called it? My friend said something like that about chopping the tree if that's what the top red line is Indicating. I do like the structure above the root collar as it stands but would like a better root spread. As much as it gives the tree some different vibes I would much rather have a traditional root structure. I'm a little worried about doing something as extreme as cutting a ring around the root collar forcing roots to grow because for what I thought oaks don't really airlayer that great. The roots in that potion of the trunk where very stringy and not enough to warrant me to stop digging for more substantial amounts of roots. For now I can deal with the roots. I'm not a big fan of exposed roots so having one or two isn't really a bad thing for me. But time will tell if I decide to get better roots I'm more wondering if the top red line is Indicating a trunk chop and develop the tree from the remaining two branches under the line. And that would most likely mean carving because pin oaks heal horribly. That one branch I removed 3 years ago isn't healing..... like at all. I don't know if some kinda of special cut paste will help but regular cut past didn't do squat. But now that i look at it i can see where your going with that chop if that's what you meant. Definitely is something to think about but it heals so slow.

I would suggest getting the roots straightened out first. Leave the top alone to drive production of new roots. Yes a ground layer is a risk, but you agree that the roots as is are not gonna cut it. I'm a big fan of doing the big work first. If you spend a couple of years on the top, then kill the tree working the roots you've just wasted those years. If, worst case, you kill it working the roots this year, at least you can move on to a different tree.

 

[MMJNICE]

Exactly. Peel off a ring BELOW the root collar. As for healing chop wounds, there are cut pastes with hormones to promote callus growth, but Quercus palustris will heal wounds on its own if there is enough growth above the wound.

I thought that was the case with oaks, being that airlayers are a no go.. thanks for the refresh on how to do the ground layer, i never mind hearing things more to get them learned.

 

[MMJNICE]

Exactly. Peel off a ring BELOW the root collar. As for healing chop wounds, there are cut pastes with hormones to promote callus growth, but Quercus palustris will heal wounds on its own if there is enough growth above the wound.

I've been trying not to make any serious cuts on the tree because the paste and the putty in the green lid didn't do much as far as helping heal the cuts I've made so far. I'll have to do the chopping later if I get to the roots this season I think

 

[MMJNICE]

Didn't repot the tree this season but it seems to be growing just fine for the time being. It was pretty late leafing out this season even for an oak so im kinda trying to make up for time. The first push of leaves i got like two or three new branches. The goal now is to just feed the crap out of it and hope I get some new branches on the weak side of the tree that needs more ramification. Would also like to get the leaves much smaller after it's first cut back of the season im sure ill be able to reduce the leaf size... i hope.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I think your first step should be to fix the roots. In the picture below, you'll see the root collar circled in red. Everything above that line is stem tissue. Everything below that line is root tissue. It is pretty much impossible to layer anything above that line, because oaks refuse to grow root tissue from the stem area. Below that line, oaks can sprout new roots. I would recommend that you layer the roots below the root collar in order to start building your future nebari. Be sure to bury the root collar itself, since it contains undifferentiated tissue, which can sprout both roots and stems. If you can get new roots at or below the root collar, you will significantly advance the tree.

View attachment 581666

Here's what I'd be aiming for:

View attachment 581667

Agreeing with Gabler particularly as to cutting off above second branch To get rid of unsightly straight trunk and develop trunk taper

 

[MMJNICE]

Agreeing with Gabler particularly as to cutting off above second branch To get rid of unsightly straight trunk and develop trunk taper

As of now I'm not sure about cutting the upper body off yet.. it kinda looks Fugly in leaf right now but I'm hoping after some cut backs then further Ramification and smaller leaf size it will look better. I'm really wanting to develop the tree in the natural style the tree grows in and that means the straight section is part of the Plan for now. The roots may start getting rebuild next repotting if doing an ground layer is really Feasible
With an pin oak because im not fully convinced of that one yet. I'd need conformation from someone that has done that before I Possibly kill my tree by cutting a ring around the base of the trunk.