My first Maple! Let's CHOP IT! lol

[jagboy69]

Growing up in southwest florida, I never experienced the wondrous cycle of a deciduous tree. Now living in hot west Texas that does have seasons, hot and cold, I ordered my first Maple (harvest gold) from that guy on Youtube. No one sells Maple trees near me probably because they don't make it. Well, I have kept this thing alive since this past february living in the shade on my doorstep. It seems happy enough on the doorstep after I burnt the leaves! I snipped them off and it spit out a new set. lol Amazing!

So now what? If I have this right, I think I chop it back mid winter and do root work when I see buds in the spring. I slipped it's root ball into this current pot around april with no ill effects so far. It wasn't root bound so I'd like to keep it in this clay pot for now. I think it helps keep the roots cool through evaporation. I don't like the graft at the base so I'm sure it will be air layer for me down the road, but can anyone offer me some suggestions to get this thing off to a good start so I can create some movement and taper?? Sure would appreciate it!

Thanks!
Jason

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Welcome to the site Jason! Tell us more about your goals with this tree and go order a few trident maples, lol. This tree may very well be fine for your goals and if you want to play around the trident will be way more forgiving.

 

[jagboy69]

Hi Hack! I'm thinking shohin, in an upright style say 14-16inches tall... I will go on the hunt for some tridents, I heard they grow super fast so I maybe I can grow my way out of mistake I am sure to make.

 

[Jrmcmich]

Might want to let this grow thicker?

 

[Shibui]

I'm thinking shohin, in an upright style say 14-16inches tall.

Strictly speaking, Shohin is under 10". I think the next size up is called Kifu.
Terminology aside, Would you like to spend 10 - 15 years developing a really good bonsai with nebari, trunk taper and great branches or is your aim something quicker but less impressive?
The first will require growing the tree on to thicken the trunk with regular trunk chops to maintain height and trunk taper folloed by gradual development of branches.
If you're aiming for the quicker option you can begin trimming to develop ramification. That should gradually give you a trunk with a canopy but the trunk certainly won't be as impressive for maybe 30 years or more.

 

[rockm]

I’d just learn to care for the tree for the first year. It’s a little late for trunk chops. Particularly if you’re in an area where frost and freezes happen--although I guess that may not be an issue in west Texas

 

[jagboy69]

I thought that was chumono, but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm good with a 10-15year time frame. I know the trunk needs to thicken up, but I have to stay in a pot because of where I live. West Tejas is stupid hot, dry and can be windy. Add any 2 of those and a maple tree will be firewood real fast. SO here I sit looking at my twig and I'm thinking even though it's young and I've kept it alive almost a year at my address, why not start working it when the time is right? What time of year is best to trunk chop it to keep it's height under control and help it thicken up while developing branch placement? Where would you cut it? I know it's gonna spend a lot of time looking hideous and I'm okay with that.

Where do you guys suggest ordering tridents? Sure hope they don't mind a month of 100degree temps!

 

[rockm]

I thought that was chumono, but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm good with a 10-15year time frame. I know the trunk needs to thicken up, but I have to stay in a pot because of where I live. West Tejas is stupid hot, dry and can be windy. Add any 2 of those and a maple tree will be firewood real fast. SO here I sit looking at my twig and I'm thinking even though it's young and I've kept it alive almost a year at my address, why not start working it when the time is right? What time of year is best to trunk chop it to keep it's height under control and help it thicken up while developing branch placement? Where would you cut it? I know it's gonna spend a lot of time looking hideous and I'm okay with that.

Where do you guys suggest ordering tridents? Sure hope they don't mind a month of 100degree temps!

Tridents are better at handling heat and wind.

Cutting it will slow thickening which will already be slower since it's in a container. First things first, developing the thickness of the trunk is the priority. That means letting it grow without chopping if you want to accomplish that priority. There is no real need to keep its height "under control" Height is relative at this point, was growing out a deciduous trunk relies on sacrifice growth to fuel lower trunk development. You actually WANT height to increase at this point. The more growth above the developing trunk, the faster the trunk will develop.

Spring is best for reduction work. Fall is when trees have shifted from green new growth to making woodier tissue on trunks and branching.

 

[jagboy69]

Thanks Rockm! I can let it grow out then. I was a little concerned when I saw the handlebars and thought one of those needs to get whacked or I'm gonna end up with a fat section halfway up the tree. Seems to me even a little bit off the top will increase leaf production and thus add more "solar panels" to help it grow faster. Is my thinking flawed? Even at this stage, I would guess even a little bit of ramification would be beneficial, but I'm still learning.

 

[Jrmcmich]

I will say what I noticed on a couple of mine as they got tall wind started to have impact on stability. I did do a slight too chop on 2 this spring just to make sure they would still fit in my cold frame as well. That being said even just a slight too chop slowed them way down remainder of year. You shouldn’t have that issue in Texas

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Where do you guys suggest ordering tridents? Sure hope they don't mind a month of 100degree temps!

Evergreengardenworks.com

 

[Jrmcmich]

Evergreengardenworks.com

Here’s another that has good field grown starts

Cedar Rose Nursery

Cedar Rose Nursery

cedarrosenursery.com

 

[Nera]

Just to share some of my own JMs, I did fairly hard cut backs on them recently - 3 year old nursery stock, all with long leggy top growth. When you are ready to do pruning, you want to cut back with creating nice taper in mind. Thick branches out of proportion to the tree need to be reduced or removed. It's currently the start of spring where I am.

 

[Jetson1950]

I thought that was chumono, but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm good with a 10-15year time frame. I know the trunk needs to thicken up, but I have to stay in a pot because of where I live. West Tejas is stupid hot, dry and can be windy. Add any 2 of those and a maple tree will be firewood real fast. SO here I sit looking at my twig and I'm thinking even though it's young and I've kept it alive almost a year at my address, why not start working it when the time is right? What time of year is best to trunk chop it to keep it's height under control and help it thicken up while developing branch placement? Where would you cut it? I know it's gonna spend a lot of time looking hideous and I'm okay with that.

Where do you guys suggest ordering tridents? Sure hope they don't mind a month of 100degree temps!

This is a Katsura Japanese Maple I bought in Marble Falls back in the Spring at Backbone Valley Nursery. They have a variety of Japanese Maples and all of them looked really good. Definitely acclimated to Texas heat and cold. They were kept in a shaded area. I brought it home here to central Florida and it’s doing great. Got three air layers going on it.

 

[rockm]

Thanks Rockm! I can let it grow out then. I was a little concerned when I saw the handlebars and thought one of those needs to get whacked or I'm gonna end up with a fat section halfway up the tree. Seems to me even a little bit off the top will increase leaf production and thus add more "solar panels" to help it grow faster. Is my thinking flawed? Even at this stage, I would guess even a little bit of ramification would be beneficial, but I'm still learning.

You are NOT interested in what anything above the first 8-12 inches of trunk. The rest of the tree is mostly sacrifice. Trying to keep as much of the orginal trunk as possible instead of focusing on what is needed (the bottom. Third of the trunk) is a beginner mistake

You will regrow the entire top of the tree after the first trunk chop.

 

[jagboy69]

You are NOT interested in what anything above the first 8-12 inches of trunk. The rest of the tree is mostly sacrifice.

EXACTLY!

See my handle bar up the tree about 6".... I thought I heard jelle on youtube say if you have this, nothing happens below that. I might be wrong, but won't it just swell at that point and fatten up above? I know with maples, you really have to watch out for this issue and clip those dudes off.

Nera, thanks for the photos, looks like great work getting on the right foot developing movement and taper! Well done!

Jetson, that's one heck of tree ya got there! I'll have to add Katsura to the list. I'm down in austin / san antonio area quite a bit. Good to know that thing can survive out here in my neck of the woods.

 

[Jetson1950]

EXACTLY!

See my handle bar up the tree about 6".... I thought I heard jelle on youtube say if you have this, nothing happens below that. I might be wrong, but won't it just swell at that point and fatten up above? I know with maples, you really have to watch out for this issue and clip those dudes off.

Nera, thanks for the photos, looks like great work getting on the right foot developing movement and taper! Well done!

Jetson, that's one heck of tree ya got there! I'll have to add Katsura to the list. I'm down in austin / san antonio area quite a bit. Good to know that thing can survive out here in my neck of the woods.

You also might want to check out Metro Maples up in Fort Worth. He doesn’t ship, but he has 6 acres of just about every kind of Japanese Maples you can imagine. I bought 11 from him all in 1-2 gallon pots. He grows some from cutting and graft grows the ones that don’t do well from cuttings. They are all doing well here in my back yard under a big palm tree.

 

[rockm]

a

EXACTLY!

See my handle bar up the tree about 6".... I thought I heard jelle on youtube say if you have this, nothing happens below that. I might be wrong, but won't it just swell at that point and fatten up above? I know with maples, you really have to watch out for this issue and clip those dudes off.

Nera, thanks for the photos, looks like great work getting on the right foot developing movement and taper! Well done!

Jetson, that's one heck of tree ya got there! I'll have to add Katsura to the list. I'm down in austin / san antonio area quite a bit. Good to know that thing can survive out here in my neck of the woods.

I Don’t get what you’re saying. That handle as a new leader? “Nothing will happen” above it? ??

 

[Jetson1950]

These are the ones I got at Metro Maples. All very healthy little trees. Familiar names in the group are Deshojo, Shin Deshojo, Arakawa, Katsura, Kiyo Hime, basic Acer Palmatum and others. This picture was taken in San Saba Texas at my sister’s place.

 

[dbonsaiw]

See my handle bar up the tree about 6".... I thought I heard jelle on youtube say if you have this, nothing happens below that. I might be wrong, but won't it just swell at that point and fatten up above? I know with maples, you really have to watch out for this issue and clip those dudes off.

All branches will feed and thicken the trunk below. The more you let your tree grow, the faster the trunk will thicken. Once a desired thickness is obtained, the trunk is cut back so that the next section of trunk can be grown.

When multiple branches grow from a single point, that point may swell to be thicker than the section immediately below it, forming kind of a knob. This “reverse taper” is not what one wants. But it’s not going to thicken the area above it and definitely not at the expense of not thickening the area below.