Moving to Colder Climate

[TreeTwister]

Hi Friends,
I live in the Sacramento area, hot summers, cool winters. I will be living at Lake Tahoe for 18 months starting this summer and need to decide which trees can come with me. I have ruled out my tridents and black pines, just too cold. Interested in thoughts on the following:
Japanese maple and azalea, various varieties.
Sierra juniper, collected at 7,500 foot elevation last fall, fairly large.
White fir, ponderosa pine and sugar pine, collected at 6,500 feet over last seven years.

Seems the hardiness range of the plants would allow them to survive the 18 months stay. Thinking of digging them in at a more protected location, burying pots and bases in compost and watering in well before snows hit. Any thoughts, experiences and/or suggestions with this would be much appreciated.

After 18 months we will land in northern Washington state where I think my trees will do reasonably well.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Paradox]

If you think its too cold for JBP and trident, its too cold for Japanese maple and azalea

 

[TreeTwister]

Hmmm... I'm seeing tridents hardy to just below freezing and I have heard JBP don't like cold. Japanese maple and azalea grow as landscape trees at Tahoe. Is the concern that they are bonsai and so more cold sensitive?

 

[Paradox]

Hmmm... I'm seeing tridents hardy to just below freezing and I have heard JBP don't like cold. Japanese maple and azalea grow as landscape trees at Tahoe. Is the concern that they are bonsai and so more cold sensitive?

Trident is more cold hardy than Japanese Maple. Japanese maple are reported that they can not go below 20 deg F without risking the tree.
An old time member here named Don Blackmond grew them in Michigan.

I guess I should have also specified Satuski azaleas are not as cold hardy as what we typically see as landscape azaleas.
Typical landscape azlaeas which are usually Karume azaleas or Korean azaleas are more cold hardy and can grow in the landscape.

Yes Bonsai are more cold sensitive than trees/plants in the ground. You need to treat a potted tree as if it was one zone warmer than the species cold tolerance zone.
So if the species is tolerant to zone 7, you need to treat it as if it was a zone 8 plant

 

[leatherback]

tridents hardy to just below freezing

They have seen -15c here (5F) and not shown it.
But there is probably variation there too.

You can always, if just for one or two winters, sort out a wintershelter with a small heating element for sensitive trees if it does get really cold?

 

[bwaynef]

My jbp and tridents handled teensºF this winter, and cooler than that previously. As for the sierra juniper, isn't that their native range? I don't think you'd need to worry with them.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I think part of the problem might be the DEEEEEP snow in Tahoe.

Great place in summer though!

 

[leatherback]

problem might be the DEEEEEP snow in Tahoe.

Snow is a GREAT insulator.

 

[n8]

You've only got to get them through one winter. Get rid of the plants you don't want to develop and make it work for the rest.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Snow is a GREAT insulator.

That's a good point. I think rockm has also made that point.

 

[Dav4]

I have lived and practiced bonsai in zone 6 MA, zone 7b GA, and zone 6a MI. I have made some adjustments to my collection along the way but one constant is the presence of Tridents, Japanese maples, and JBP. These are projects I have that have spent the last 4 winters outside here in MI, mulched on my concrete patiot, along with a bunch of JBP that have already been moved out of their overwintering spot. It was -5 F 2 months ago, 22 F yesterday AM and 20 F this AM. Unless the Tahoe region gets much colder than here, I think your trees will be fine with typical winter protection.

 

[TreeTwister]

Thanks for all the input! I find myself back where I started. Pines and maples will be located in a more sheltered area, heavily mulched in, and as the snow flies I will let them get gently buried.
I guess one needs to take advice from experts with a grain of salt. I don't think my bonsai coach has ever tried overwintering plant in snow country. Our lowest lows are occasionally around 0 F.
Mostly we only see lows in the teens. Looks like Drop Branch in MI has been dealing successfully with colder temps.

Again, thanks much and I will share a post on how the plants fared next spring.

 

[clwagner167]

Have you thought about cold house storage. I have always heard from quite a few that it is not so much the cold, it is the winds and wind chill that do them in. If you have a garage that will also help.

 

[TreeTwister]

My problem would be snow load. It doesn't happen every year, but big snow years can be deep and any cold house would need to be quite robust.

My trees will be buried, but as one commenter noted snow can be an insulator. Anyone have personal experience with bonsai in snow country? I collected about one third of my trees from this environment, so I think those trees will be fine.

 

[Dav4]

My problem would be snow load. It doesn't happen every year, but big snow years can be deep and any cold house would need to be quite robust.

My trees will be buried, but as one commenter noted snow can be an insulator. Anyone have personal experience with bonsai in snow country? I collected about one third of my trees from this environment, so I think those trees will be fine.

Deep snow compacts through the winter and can be very damaging to any tree with refined branching. It's also a great place for overwintering vermin such as voles to comfortably munch unnoticed on bark, roots, and buds. I will use snow on top of and around the pot as an insulator and a source of moisture through the winter but, I keep my developed trees under cover to prevent heavy snow from damaging the branching. I

 

[TreeTwister]

Good point on vermin. We have a landscape vine maple that was chewed on over a winter, quite a bit of trunk damage.

 

[Russ1]

How cold will it get there? I live in zone 6 (-10 deg) and I have a JBP that's been living in a 1/2 wine barrel for 30 years, started out in a 1 gal container. It's been through many cold very windy winters.
I also have a number of them in 8" training pots, those are kept in an unheated hoop house along with a dozen seedlings I started last Feb from seeds collected from the one in the barrel.
Don't know if this helps.

 

[TreeTwister]

Seems like the cold is not my critical factor. Snow load (potential to break branches) and critters chewing (they do stay active under the snow).

I think I can manage these risks by placing bonsai is an area more protected by large trees (much less snow accumulation) and a ground layer and low perimeter of chicken wire.