Moreton Bay Fig - is it too late to train?

[Bonsaibobby]

This Moreton bay fig i bought as pre-bonsai nearly 40 years ago from a bonsai nursery in Jandakot, Western Australia. At the time there was no internet and very little information available so besides repotting and pruning of branches every 5 years it has never been trained with wires. Recently i visited a bonsai nursery in the swan valley and i was advised by the owner and workshop teacher that it can still be trained even though he did not see it on the day. The top branches of the tree are quite thick although much smaller than the main trunk which is 8” thick. I’m not sure i like the branches at the top as they resemble thick sticks. I have recently pruned the top and thinking of growing out the branches to make them look thinner. Your ideas on what you would do is much appreciated. A little of my background…i have only just started getting into bonsai again recently after all these years since i gave up after killing several nursery stock juniper procumbens that i tried making into cascading style bonsai. Oh and a coastal windswept small tree 10” height that i dug up from a rock cliff at the beach 34 years ago was a dream natural bonsai but died 2 weeks later.
Cheers
Rob

 

[hemmy]

This Moreton bay fig i bought as pre-bonsai nearly 40 years ago from a bonsai nursery in Jandakot, Western Australia.

You must be doing something right if you’ve been growing it for 40yrs! What form our canopy outline do you want? A broad, wide Banyan canopy or something taller? Look at larger trees and pictures of Indonesian ficus bonsai on the internet. Does the bonsai nursery have mature ficus or other trees that you like? If so, take it in for a workshop. The right side is the main taller trunk and origin of the apex. It has some branches with nice movement. You are on the right track in pruning for taper and also movement. But growing them out further for taper and ramification is going increase the overall height. I’d look to cut back harder into the canopy. Maybe 1/4-1/3 back on the right and ~1/2 on the left. The straight portions on the left might be able to be wired with think wire and bent, but it could be very difficult and they might snap if you over bend them.

If you pruned within the last 2 weeks, you can prune harder again if it not pushing growth yet. Otherwise it is probably better to let it push the new growth and re-establish energy reserves. I’m sure you know, but ficus are best pruned and repotted during your summer. I try to do it during during the most humid point of our summers when the night time temps are greater than 60F (~15C) and before we get the hot drier weather above 100F (~38C).

Best of luck!

 

[DanaWhicker]

It's generally helpful if you put your location information in your profile. That helps the folks on here better understand your local climate and give advice accordingly.

As far as this tree, absolutely positively trainable! That's a beautiful tree with tons of potential! The trunk, aerial roots... fantastic! If you live in a subtropical or tropical climate, you live in the perfect place to raise these. They can take an amazing amount of pruning, training, and general neglect. The key is water the heck out of them. If you think you are overwatering, you're probably not.

Styling advice: I would go for a Banyan look. You mention not being happy about the thick stick branches. Visualize what the branches do on an old tree - the tips of the branches lower towards the ground with the weight of what they carry. I would chop back, more so in the middle to create stout ficus canopy effect. Then pull the lower branches down, keeping the branches that maintain a radial patter without having any 2 branches directly opposite of each other.

The red is where I would chop. The lime green represent the branches I would pull down to earth. Water the heck out of it and watch it backbud and sprout beautiful new foliage. Just my opinion.

 

[BrianBay9]

Great trunk on that! Your object should be to create taper in the major branches, like you create taper in the trunk. Decide on your trunk line and final look. Prune major branches hard, below the actual silhouette that you're going for. Let the new growth run, wire it to shape, then next year prune that new growth back to a few leaves. Do it again. Do it again. Before you know it you'll have the tree that exists in your mind.

 

[Gabler]

* * *

Styling advice: I would go for a Banyan look. You mention not being happy about the thick stick branches. Visualize what the branches do on an old tree - the tips of the branches lower towards the ground with the weight of what they carry. I would chop back, more so in the middle to create stout ficus canopy effect. Then pull the lower branches down, keeping the branches that maintain a radial patter without having any 2 branches directly opposite of each other.

The red is where I would chop. The lime green represent the branches I would pull down to earth. Water the heck out of it and watch it backbud and sprout beautiful new foliage. Just my opinion.

I'd do the opposite. The overall profile of the tree is good. OP may just want to introduce more taper to some of the branches and build ramification. The middle branch is already well-tapered, so I would just work on secondary branches and ramification. The side branches are untapered, and that seems to be the basis of OP's complaint. They could be chopped back a bit harder than the middle branch and grown back out again to the same length to create taper. This tree is already well on its way to a somewhat informal broom style, and I see no reason to redesign it when it would work just as well to refine the current build.

Anyway, OP has options. It's definitely good material.

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Thanks everyone for your comments and thoughtful suggestions. Wow after many decades of looking at this fig tree morph into it’s adult state i can finally hope to call it a bonsai someday with some training so thanks again and will read each and every members comment for consideration. The wide canopy approach i think is ideal as i often admired the trees i see in hyde park here in Perth which by the way has many old moreton bay fig trees. I will have to go and have lunch under these trees and observe the branch positions as they look like a tangled delightful mess. The roots on these trees in the park are really prominent and snakelike if that makes sense, yuk! Sorry for those who like the look. If you are reading this post at Bonsai Emporium i thank you guys, yes you Peter and team for the next photo i am putting up here of your own moreton bay fig. Peter mentioned it is only 10 years old which impressed me no doubts! Does anyone see something unusual about it? Let me know your comments. Thanks guys
Cheers
Rob

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Okay, in case you missed it. The morton bay fig photo above it actually 2 trees!

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Today i decided to cut 2 of the thicker branches on the left side of the fig and leave the main trunk. Thanks again everyone for your suggestions and can’t wait to see some tapered branches. Happy camper today.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Today i pruned really hard on the left side of this morton bay fig.. I definitely would never had attempted this without this forum members guidance. In an odd way this looks more like a bonsai now than before the big chop as the thick branches on the left side are now almost gone. I guess i can only wait now for growth and later defoliate to ramify the branches in a couple of years time after recovery. This week i also bought nursery stock bluemoon azalea and trimmed it very bare and will train it into cascade style with some luck. I placed some arrows for the design concept and hope to see some more branches in the right places? Off to propogate some bougainvillea cuttings with rooting hormone gel. Here in WA, not washington, ha ha we are having spring weather of 35 degree celcius which is still a rather warm day for us downundqet at this time of year.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Gabler]

Today i pruned really hard on the left side of this morton bay fig.. I definitely would never had attempted this without this forum members guidance. In an odd way this looks more like a bonsai now than before the big chop as the thick branches on the left side are now almost gone. I guess i can only wait now for growth and later defoliate to ramify the branches in a couple of years time after recovery. This week i also bought nursery stock bluemoon azalea and trimmed it very bare and will train it into cascade style with some luck. I placed some arrows for the design concept and hope to see some more branches in the right places? Off to propogate some bougainvillea cuttings with rooting hormone gel. Here in WA, not washington, ha ha we are having spring weather of 35 degree celcius which is still a rather warm day for us downundqet at this time of year.
Cheers
Rob

Developing bonsai is largely a cycle of growing and chopping to develop taper from the base of the trunk out to the tips of the branches. The cycles get shorter and shorter as you build from the trunk to the primary branches to secondary branches to tertiary branches. Eventually, you'll get to the point that you'll be pinching new growth shortly after it emerges to maintain the silhouette.

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Thank you Gabler for your positive encouragement and informative post. Just what i needed to hear in a time of uncertainty.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Something i have learnt being on here is to think of the tree you have in mind first and try to style the tree in the same way. I like the broom style as in the photo below after looking at many moreton bay trees although this is a port jackson fig.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Bought a Japanese maple for $165 aud from a bonsai nursery. This will be a challenge with the hot winds we have in Australia and just ordered a book on ebay on bonsai maples by Peter Adams to work out the best way to care for them.
Update: i decided to chop off most of the branches and propogate more maples as I personally like trees with movement. Looking forward to this learning experience.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Shibui]

I've arrived at this party a bit late but that harder prune on the ficus branches is just what I would have recommended. Now take the next few years to grow out better tapered and ramified new branching. That will usually involve repeated rounds of grow and cut.
Hope the Japanese maple copes with Perth heat. I have found that trident maple is a much better bet for our climate and is much more tolerant of beginners learning to trim and maintain deciduous trees. Hope you don't expect either azalea or maple to be as bomb proof as your ficus.
There's no real scale in the maple pic but $165 seems excessive for such an undeveloped Japanese maple.

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Thanks Shibui for some great advice. I’m agreed that the untapered branches needed to be chopped low and regrow them to create taper which makes good sense. Does this mean that once the new growth is wired and reaches the desired height of the canopy it is cut back again very low every year or does it mean that only the new growth above the desired canopy height is pinched back to keep the desired canopy outline? A bit confused on this part
Yes i did actually consider a trident maple as they look great without their leaves. I saw a youtube video and astounded at the harshness of pruning they can tolerate. I know what you mean by bombproof fig! Maybe this is why i have seen this tree live fircso long. Yes i’ve created a summary for the azaleas and JM on when to prune, repot, fertilize from various online sources. Only last week i wired a crepe myrtle branch and there was only a slight crack but the branch died as it must have been too brittle. Luckily a new branch shooted next to it otherwise the pine style design i’m creating would be no longer be the case with a missing branch. Lord knows how many folks lose a branch on a vital part of the trunk and lose the design altogether especially a young bonsai.
With the summer arriving in Australia i have created a small greenhouse with mesh shading for the Maples and all other potential bonsais. I tried visiting Vinas bonsai shop at the wanneroo markets here in Perth to pick up a trident maple but couldn’t find it amongst the crowded market stalls. On my shortlist are Mulberry, almond, apricot. I have recently aquired a snowpear and dwarf peach. The last 2 have large leaves but nice flowers and trunk texture.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Worth the price or not?

 

[Gabler]

Worth the price or not?

No

 

[Shibui]

Thanks Shibui for some great advice. I’m agreed that the untapered branches needed to be chopped low and regrow them to create taper which makes good sense. Does this mean that once the new growth is wired and reaches the desired height of the canopy it is cut back again very low every year or does it mean that only the new growth above the desired canopy height is pinched back to keep the desired canopy outline? A bit confused on this part

Allowing any new shoots to grow out to the desired canopy then trimming to get ramification will end up looking like the previous incarnation with long, untapered branches. Better looking branches (and trunks) are developed by regular grow and cut so the full length is achieved slowly. Such branches will have better taper and plenty of side branches so look more like real branches. Generally the first new shoots will be allowed to grow way past desired length which will thicken them to match the previous thicker branching then cut way back - maybe 1 or 2 leaf nodes out from the old section. Then 1 or 2 shoots grow out long but not as long as the first time before pruning back, again to 1 or 2 leaf nodes. That new section will be a little thinner than the 2 previous bits and so on. In this way tapered branches can be developed and should have plenty of tertiary side branches to build canopy density/ramification.

Usually a small crack when bending is no problem. It should just heal up but bending early in spring can often result in dead branches because the bark is loose during growing season and bending can separate bark from the wood below. Sometimes doesn't even need to have a visible crack to kill a branch. Bending and rebending into different positions is another cause of branches dying after styling. You'll find that some species are more bendable and some are just very brittle. It's a learning curve to know which ones can tolerate more or less. Allowing the tree to get just a little dry seems to make all plants more pliable. Well worth trying before your next bending session.

Your shade enclosure sounds ideal for many of the species you mention in Perth.
Some of your choices are going to be challenging. Almond has proved difficult to get good branching here. Almond and Cherry are related and both suffer from a great many pests and diseases. I don't bother with either over here any more as they are too much work and heartache for the brief flowering season.

There are some great Aussie natives that are very amenable to bonsai culture and are way better adapted to the hotter, drier climate than most exotics. You should be able to see some good examples at local bonsai meetings and shows so look out for those in Perth area. Ausbonsai is another forum with good resources for our climates and conditions. Maybe we'll see you there.

 

[Bonsaibobby]

Thanks Shibui for explaining how ramification works as much as it seems so strange to grow out branches wildy then chop back hard and repeat. i have a much better understanding now so thank you. Due to lack of knowledge over the past 4 decades i only pruned back the branches to the desired canopy height every 5 years instead of cutting the branches right down near the branch base. Even watching the masters Peter Chan and Walter Pall recently i never really grasped the details of ramification you provided. It seems that ramification and trunk thickening both achieve the same outcome. I am attaching a couple of side photos of my moreton bay fig. Can anyone suggest if i should cut back these 2 branches and let the shoots grow out and then wired? I’m not sure how the branches grew like that but i do remember the tree was growing very close to a side wall when i had it sitting on a custom wood table i made. Well noted about the almond and cherry and won’t expect much from these guys if i give them a go. Yes i may join up Ausbonsai forum in future as i have only just started this hobby of bonsai again. Now with the internet and wonderful forum members it makes bonsai seem much more interesting. I’ve thrown myself into the deep end with acquiring bonsais from nurseries and propogating cuttings of several species of potted plants all at once. Maybe someday when i am much more knowledgeable and experienced i will be brave enough to try growing juniper procumbens again into bonsai. For now I will just grow and learn more about the ones i have on hand…ficus, japanese maples, fruiting species, crepe myrtle, chinese wisteria. A friend who has now passed away had a brother who gave me his moreton bay bonsai and book collection. I put it in the front garden of my last house for 20 years and forgot all about it when i moved out. Will have to try and find where i put the large book collection which i think is stored away in my mothers storage.
Cheers
Rob

 

[Gabler]

The same basic principle applies to the branches as well as the trunk.

Article - Chopping Maple trees

Learn the difference and how to make pine tree looking maples and the spreading meadow maple.

www.bonsainut.com