Milorganite and deer...

[Michael P]

We have similar irrigation restrictions here. Some cities in Texas have reasonable gray water regulations, but not Dallas. Here we are even required to put AC condensate in the sanitary sewer despite the fact that condensate is pretty close to distilled water. It drives me nuts!

Back on topic, I've used Milorganite in landscapes, general potted plants, and bonsai for about 20 years. It gives a very safe baseline of fertility in all cases. Our native soils have plenty of potassium, so no problem in landscapes or vegetable gardens. For potted plants and bonsai I usually fertilize biweekly with MiracleGro in addition to Milorganite.

I can't comment on it's deer repellent qualities, but nothing stops squirrels except death.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Was it “grey water” or “reclaim/reuse water”?

I am misusing the term. I am certain it was reclaim/reuse water - because it came from the water district, though you had to tap into a completely separate system.

 

[WavyGaby]

Do not use this product or any other Biosolids for the fact that they are extremely contaminated with PFAS. Unregulated PFAS compounds are being discharged to wastewater treatment plants (WWTPs) where the PFAS and other consituents combine with a synergistic effect of making the contaminants more harmful than when they went in. WWTPs then discharge the water (not treated for PFAS) and package up the solids containing extremely high levels of PFAS for wholesale or retail distribution.

Check out the $12.5 B class action PFAS lawsuit against 3M or the $98 M one prior with 3M being help liable for aquifer contamination along the Tennessee River as examples. Agricultural fields with records of biosolid usage can become Recognized Environmental Conditions. Its pretty bizarre.

 

[Bonsai Turtle]

Do not use this product or any other Biosolids for the fact that they are extremely contaminated with PFAS. Unregulated PFAS compounds are being discharged to wastewater treatment plants (WWTPs) where the PFAS and other consituents combine with a synergistic effect of making the contaminants more harmful than when they went in. WWTPs then discharge the water (not treated for PFAS) and package up the solids containing extremely high levels of PFAS for wholesale or retail distribution.

Check out the $12.5 B class action PFAS lawsuit against 3M or the $98 M one prior with 3M being help liable for aquifer contamination along the Tennessee River as examples. Agricultural fields with records of biosolid usage can become Recognized Environmental Conditions. Its pretty bizarre.

I didn’t want to potentially derail the convo into PFAS/PFOAS but this is exactly what I thought when I came across the thread. I would prefer to avoid anything that I know for a fact contains these and wastewater sludge is just chockfull.

I haven’t had the time to look into it yet, but I highly suspect that most of the time release synthetics that use a polymer bead delivery would system will also contain PFAS/PFOAS.

 

[stubmle]

I was wondering when PFAS would come up... Supposedly Milorganite is reasonably safe, but I'm not sure about other brands. Seems like something that would be more of a concern for food crops, bonsai or turfgrass less so. Don't think I would use it if I was on well water, though.

"Raw" biosolids are definitely unsafe for this and plenty of other reasons!

 

[Bonsai Turtle]

I was wondering when PFAS would come up... Supposedly Milorganite is reasonably safe, but I'm not sure about other brands. Seems like something that would be more of a concern for food crops, bonsai or turfgrass less so. Don't think I would use it if I was on well water, though.

"Raw" biosolids are definitely unsafe for this and plenty of other reasons!

Milorganite should be safe from the pathogen perspective but PFAS/PFOAS require ultra high temperatures to be destroyed. Those temperatures would also render useless what makes biosolids a good fertilizer.

 

[hampton]

Ive used it as a drying agent when spreading pre-germinated grass seed and haven’t noticed it deter anything from foraging. I hadn’t considered the PFAS, probably worth finding something to substitute.

For bonsai I typically use Holly-tone (4-3-4) and North Country Pro-Gro (5-3-4)

 

[The Barber]

For the record, untreated human waste (feces) is considered dangerous to use on food crops - because of the potential transmission of disease or bacteria (think e coli). You need to treat it first... or use it on something other than food crops.
Untreated human sewage is a main source of drinking water contamination - and food-borne illness.


My wife is from Milwaukee. She laughingly said "smells like home"!

I'd read years ago that the ecoli contamination and recalls on imported produce are usually because other countries will use raw humanure on food crops.

 

[Michael P]

From the Milorganite website:

"Moisture is first squeezed out of the clumps using belt presses, resulting in something similar to wet cardboard. The semi-solid material moves on to one of 12 rotary kiln driers heated to 900–1200 ⁰F, which heats the Milorganite to an internal temperature of 176°F. The extreme heat kills pathogens."

The "clumps" are dead microbes that have consumed the biosolids. I don't know if this treatment reduces danger from PFAS or not.

 

[Bonsai Turtle]

From the Milorganite website:

"Moisture is first squeezed out of the clumps using belt presses, resulting in something similar to wet cardboard. The semi-solid material moves on to one of 12 rotary kiln driers heated to 900–1200 ⁰F, which heats the Milorganite to an internal temperature of 176°F. The extreme heat kills pathogens."

The "clumps" are dead microbes that have consumed the biosolids. I don't know if this treatment reduces danger from PFAS or not.

PFAS destruction happens above 1000°C

Interim Guidance on the Destruction and Disposal of PFAS and Materials Containing PFAS | US EPA

Learn how to read and comment on EPA's interim guidance on the destruction and disposal of PFAS and PFAS-containing materials from non-consumer products, such as aqueous film-forming foam, which was available for public comment until February 22, 2021.

www.epa.gov

 

[BrightsideB]

I'd read years ago that the ecoli contamination and recalls on imported produce are usually because other countries will use raw humanure on food crops.

Be interesting to know if that’s true o. Imported crops to the US. But the largest outbreaks in the US have been from negligence and systemic failures of our own American businesses and corporations. One that I couldn’t believe was a peanut plant that was disguating. The ceo falsifying documents and the outbreak killed 9 people confirmed poisoned over 700 people. More is likely, I think it took a while for them to trace everything back to the plant.

 

[BrightsideB]

I volunteered at a local arboretum owned by tom cox who co authored a book on conifers for the southeast. And was president of the North American conifer society for some time. I was fortunate to meet him, although during his last days.

I asked him why there were sticks laying against the trees during winter. He said it keeps the deer away. Like a long branch just resting on the side of the tree. I still don’t get it but it seemed to work.

Motion sensor hooked up to a light and something that makes a loud sound will help spook the deer and other animals. I used it for my pond and my fish stopped disappearing.

 

[bray]

At one time ADAMASKWHY blogger used this stuff for his bonsai. I don't know if he still does but I have seen him talk about adding it when I was reading his stuff about a year ago. He is down in Florida I believe.
I have used it, but I don't like the residue it leaves, not in my pvc cups or on top of the soil. Used the last of what I had this spring, I don't think I will purchase it again. I guess I will see if the deer show more notice to my trees now that I won't be using it.

 

[Zac]

Deer have very terrible depth perception. That's why a deer fence can just be a 1 foot fence in front then a 2 foot fence a couple feet behind the first to them it seams like a unjumpable object

 

[BrightsideB]

Deer have very terrible depth perception. That's why a deer fence can just be a 1 foot fence in front then a 2 foot fence a couple feet behind the first to them it seams like a unjumpable object

I read this trick works but generally with taller fences like around 4 ft. But it’s because they don’t like confined spaces being a prey animal. But hunger can override that feeling/instinct.

It seems the double fence is the best though. Because even a hungry deer can jump a 7-8ft fence but if there are two shorter ones their instinct judges it as if they can get stuck.

I do think each persons local ecosystem plays a role in whether deer or squirrels see our trees as a food source.

I’m looking more into this because I just moved and have a squirrel and deer family in the back of the property. But the fawn stays in the back so far. I see osprey, falcons, and hawks daily in the backyard so I think the squirrels stick to the forest. The deer so far seem spooked to come onto my lawn. But I know they can be my next problem here lol.

This post was already here and I see raptors on it regularly. I also know a photographer who set one up to photograph hawks. I think it could be a natural deterrent for rodents because it’s a good place to hunt.

The fawn…

 

[Zac]

Pinwheels or shinny ribbon work to long as breeze to make them move. Coyote urine will keep everything away. It just stinks

 

[KateM]

But I know for sure deer feed at night too.

 

[Ruddigger]

I learned about Milorganite in the late 90s. It was part of the "experiments" we did on the college golf course when I was working on my golf course and turfgrass management degree.
...and obviously, I use that knowledge every day working on a railyard.

Railyard? I’m a conductor myself…

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Railyard? I’m a conductor myself…

We used to operate BNSF locos when they would bring in 100 cars of frac sand, and we had to offload all of them into the silos within 24 hours or get charged extra. Now that the local oilfield cut out the middleman (us), we just have a ShuttleWagon that we somehow keep operational...
...mostly.
There are only 3 of us here now; we inspect 1202 and 1203 tank cars for safe transport across the country. I'm a conductor, switchman, engineer and mower. Sort of a "Jack-of-all-trains."

We have a lot of downtime, so I take a lot of walks through the desert scrub. I've flagged several shrubs for collecting this winter.