Maple tree during winter in temperate climate

[kornfeld]

I can remember reading about how certain trees suffer if they don't experience a cold winter. Do any species of maple bonsai suffer if they stay outside in a warm climate all year round? Are there any that do fine with warmth all year? I'm specifically curious about sugar maples, but would like to learn about any other species that come to mind. Thank you!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I wondered this exact thing a year ago.

I have one maple (shishigashira) that I've had over last winter. It still lost it's leaves in fall and grew new ones out in spring, even though the temp never got below 39F, and 39F only happened on a couple of nights.

I don't think it suffered much from not having freezing temps.

I know of another Japanese maple nearby, planted in a yard, that has done just fine year after year.

 

[kornfeld]

Awesome, that is great info to have, thank you!

I'm specifically curious about a significantly warmer winter. Like let's say the temperature never went below 65F-70F/18C-21C. What impact might that have?

 

[kornfeld]

(It's occurring to me that in the title of this thread, I was using "temperate" in the general sense of "mild;" whereas a temperate climate is a well defined thing, different from what I'm saying now. Apologies if that creates any confusion! )

 

[Paradox]

I don't think they necessarily need freezing but they do need extended time below 40 F.
There might be some maple cultivars that can handle a bit warmer but I am not sure if or which for sure.

They will survive for a few years without dormancy but will weaken over time and die.

It's like not letting you get sleep. You can survive for a while but you get to the point where you can't function any more.
Takes a lot longer for a tree but it will happen eventually

 

[Lorax7]

According to this thread, @Clicio is growing maples in Brazil. So, it seems like he’s the guy to ask.

 

[Wulfskaar]

According to this thread, @Clicio is growing maples in Brazil. So, it seems like he’s the guy to ask.

Just took a look and Clicio says that maples grow great in Brazil and states that summer wind and sun protection are critical.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I don't think they necessarily need freezing but they do need extended time below 40 F.
There might be some maple cultivars that can handle a bit warmer but I am not sure if or which for sure.

They will survive for a few years without dormancy but will weaken over time and die.

It's like not letting you get sleep. You can survive for a while but you get to the point where you can't function any more.
Takes a lot longer for a tree but it will happen eventually

My in-laws have a really nice Japanese maple in their yard. It's never spent any significant time below 40F and it's been growing and doing great for years. I have 3 seedlings from it's seeds last fall.

 

[Paradox]

My in-laws have a really nice Japanese maple in their yard. It's never spent any significant time below 40F and it's been growing and doing great for years. I have 3 seedlings from it's seeds last fall.

Like I said, some varieties might be able to handle it.
There are 100s, 1000s? of varieties of maple.
I know they grow in a fairly wide range of zones so it seems reasonable that some can handle warmer winters.
Ive heard of people having trouble with them in some parts of Florida or Texas (summer heat?) as well as areas north where it is too cold.

 

[yashu]

In @Clicio ’s recent video he showed his garden in which there were several maples and I believe he’s in a quite tropical environment… São Paulo iirc.

Edit: I just saw that @Wulfskaar mentioned this.

Edit #2: …and @Lorax7

Guess I should read through the thread a little deeper before commenting

 

[Paradox]

Like I said, some varieties might be able to handle it.
There are 100s, 1000s? of varieties of maple.
I know they grow in a fairly wide range of zones so it seems reasonable that some can handle warmer winters.
Ive heard of people having trouble with them in some parts of Florida or Texas (summer heat?) as well as areas north where it is too cold.

Sorry to sound kind of rambling in this post.
Currently working on an average of 5 hours of sleep each night for the last 3-4 nights.
So thoughts and details are not forthcoming atm...

 

[bbk]

Maples will do just fine.

Maybe not as colourful in spring and autumn but they are fine.

Plenty of JM’s in Sydney where the mean minimum temperature in July is 8.1 degrees Celsius. Even further north (by the coast) where it is warmer and they survive both as regular trees and bonsai.

 

[Clicio]

They do well in Brazil, most cultivars.
They enjoy winters that are longer than the usual and MUST be protected all summer.
I have been growing Palmatum, Deshojo, Trident, Kotohime, Kiyohime, Orange Dream. The strongest cultivar is without doubt the trident.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Interesting map shows San Francisco actually has more chilling hours than Birmingham. Other than salt intolerance, it should do well there.

Chilling Hours – What They Are and Why They Matter

www.thetreecenter.com

 

[bbk]

Interesting map shows San Francisco actually has more chilling hours than Birmingham. Other than salt intolerance, it should do well there.

Chilling Hours – What They Are and Why They Matter

www.thetreecenter.com

Water temp causing that?

 

[Paradox]

They do well in Brazil, most cultivars.
They enjoy winters that are longer than the usual and MUST be protected all summer.
I have been growing Palmatum, Deshojo, Trident, Kotohime, Kiyohime, Orange Dream. The strongest cultivar is without doubt the trident.

View attachment 458323

I swear trident are pretty much bullet proof.
How cold do your winters get where you are?

 

[Srt8madness]

Something I've noticed, growing in the ground vs in a pot makes a HUGE difference for maples in a hot environment. I had a sample of a dozen seedlings from Left coast bonsai. The few I put in the ground with sun till noon did fine. The same seedlings in pots right next to those got crisped early and a couple died.
Landscape maples do fine in majority shaded spots. Almost every cultivar I've had in a pot has died, even my 6' sangu. The shishigashara has survived but not really grown since I got it.

Ymmv but ground vs pot (even plastic) makes a huge difference.

As for overwintering, clearly the trees in the ground are getting enough dormancy.

 

[Clicio]

I swear trident are pretty much bullet proof.
How cold do your winters get where you are?

A couple of days below 0C; most of the nights between 12 and 3C; this last winter was pretty long, from June to the end of September.
But all deciduous lose their leaves by the end of May/June. Some of the maples - lace maple for instance - and some of the palmatums are still dormant.
I guess length of the nights play a big role in our climate. Elms don't lose their leaves, but dawn redwoods, wisterias, crape myrtles, gingko and so on, all get bare, leafless during the winter.
And maples, of course.

 

[Paradox]

A couple of days below 0C; most of the nights between 12 and 3C; this last winter was pretty long, from June to the end of September.
But all deciduous lose their leaves by the end of May/June. Some of the maples - lace maple for instance - and some of the palmatums are still dormant.
I guess length of the nights play a big role in our climate. Elms don't lose their leaves, but dawn redwoods, wisterias, crape myrtles, gingko and so on, all get bare, leafless during the winter.
And maples, of course.

So you do get fairly cold. Maples do get a decent dormancy where you are

 

[Wulfskaar]

Ive heard of people having trouble with them in some parts of Florida or Texas (summer heat?) as well as areas north where it is too cold.

I think the biggest problem I've had is summer/fall heat. As soon as we had a heat wave roll through, all the leaves on my Shishigashira turned brown around the edges. This happened last fall too, which made for very unspectacular fall colors.