Maple Stick-in-a-pot #1

[dbonsaiw]

This was the first tree I purchased - a stick-in-the-pot. This thread begins with what not to do with one's trees and, hopefully, will be a testament to the hardiness of the species.

After reading a bit about developing bonsai and soil, I mixed up some potting soil, sand, decorative mulch and other this and that. Unpotted the stick, trimmed what little roots there were, including a chunk of the tap root, and planted it. It wasn't long before I realized this soil wouldn't work and, after going down the rabbit hole of bonsai soil, I repotted him in (drum roll please......) potting soil made for trees. At this point, potting soil and I aren't exactly on speaking terms.

Upon receiving a ton of Bonsai Jack universal soil mix, I decided to repot him once again - if anyone is counting, that's 3 times in the span of a few months and at the wrong times (don't try this at home kids). This time, I removed the tap root in its entirety, leaving a single line of roots - probably less than 10 roots. I decided to use a plastic crate I had lying around and fixed a wooden board to it with heavy gauge wire. The tree was then nailed into the board and the roots arranged radially. Given all the work done, I did not trim the radial roots at all. Space around the board was filled with soil, some longer roots arranged over that and then the rest of the box filled with soil. Box was ultimately filled as high as I could, about 2 inches, covering the nebari for now.

Provided it hasn't just been watered and needs to drain a bit, this guy is now sitting in my garage in a larger plastic bin and is insulated with packaging Styrofoam. The garage is detached and unheated. It isn't insulated well and trees in bonsai pots froze over the past few days in there in sub-20 temps. This JM seems to be nice and snug and did not freeze. All hail Styrofoam.

Let's see if it wakes up in the spring!

 

[Soup Dragon]

I think it would be wise to put some soil under the board to let the roots grow into something. At the moment it is as if it were planted in a very wide but very shallow bonsai pot.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I think it would be wise to put some soil under the board to let the roots grow into something. At the moment it is as if it were planted in a very wide but very shallow bonsai pot.

How long do you think it will take the roots to fill this container? I’d rather up pot at that point.

 

[Soup Dragon]

How long do you think it will take the roots to fill this container? I’d rather up pot at that point.

It depends on how vigorosly it grows, but I wouldn't leave it any more than a year. The whole point of putting trees in large containers is to give the roots plenty of space to grow into which results in plenty of growth above the soil too. You don't want to the roots to "fill up" the container or it will restrict the vigor of the growth.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Sounds good. I will let it grow for a year and in spring 2023 I'll clean up the roots and repot him back into the same container a few inches higher. Figure it will be much easier to repot if he's somewhat pot bound and I can lift the whole thing out soil and all. I'll probably place another piece of wood under the board the tree is nailed into to compensate for the additional few inches.

 

[sorce]

Enter the Dragon Training!

Choosing training pot size for my picea abies

Hi everyone! Question today about training pot size and roots reduction on picea abies. I got this tree last year and didnt do much work as the tree was not in good health. During summer it have gain much more foliage then it has with alot of back buds. I dont have any "good" reason to repot...

www.bonsainut.com

Things are always going to do exactly what they are going to do.

In this scenario, what the roots are going to do largely depends on what they looked like going into this situation.

Best case scenario is each end terminated in a mass of feeder roots that will find continued feeder root happiness right where they left off.

This situation is slow to change, until they reach a better place, like underneath the board, or the outside edges, which will make them quickly throw thickies out to there to capitalize on the new environment. This is quick to disrupt Nebari proportions and aesthetics.

Worst case scenario, there weren't enough happy feeder roots to terminate the ends, and it instantly throws thickies out to the edges, to only begin growing feeder masses there, which will be cut off upon reduction to a smaller pot. This begins to disrupt Nebari proportions and aesthetics directly.

The Ebihara method must be followed exactly in total, for the express purpose of creating what it creates.

Parts of it do not adapt well, and do more harm than good.

Without entire methods with meaning, there can be endless pros and cons debated and cured with thousands of actions ....

But the easiest truth to follow is....

Everything is always going to do exactly what it was going to do.
The key to success is observing this to know what that is, then applying it to appropriate design.

For me, this beginning of a nice nebari is too good to throw this to so much chance.
I would rather have more control in a small basket.

Sorce

 

[dbonsaiw]

“The key to success is observing this to know what that is”. Agree 100%. I’ll add that there is only so much one can learn from books. Although that is a lot, Actual experience and experimentation is essential to this understanding. I’ve been devouring bonsai literature, but not having the actual hands on experience is a draw back as I don’t actually yet know what the effects of my actions will be. So, for better or worse, I’m trying different things with my few trees. Some will inevitably suffer and die because of this, but I will surely learn and be better prepared for next season. This particular tree has been severely abused for my education.

I regret not taking a pic of the roots. The root system was minimal. There was a handful of roots that were not thick by any means, but weren’t fine either. I will let it grow for a year as is and repot in spring 2023. I’ll rework the roots then and take a pic this time.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Worst case scenario, there weren't enough happy feeder roots to terminate the ends, and it instantly throws thickies out to the edges, to only begin growing feeder masses there, which will be cut off upon reduction to a smaller pot. This begins to disrupt Nebari proportions and aesthetics directly.

In this "worst case", is it then recommended to initially repot into a smaller container to force the growth of feeder roots closer in?

How does the choice of soil impact the formation of feeder roots? When I planted this, I assumed the coarse bonsai soil would encourage growth of feeder roots.

 

[sorce]

repot into a smaller container t

A smaller basket/airpruning device, sure!

There is something about a root effected by a pot that I absolutely can't stand. Wether it be a surface root that drops down at a 90 upon reaching the side, a root that circles the outside, the "corners" of root of a previously square potted tree ....I absolutely hate any root that takes on an unnatural shape.

I think that's why I'm so keen on airpruning joints, so you never have to see those "shaped" roots.

I think there is a general and very detrimental misunderstanding about "coarse" bonsai soil.
We kinda view "coarse" as a magic trick, a fix all, a safety net. Truth is, I believe this is propaganda pushed by folks with stock in pesticide companies.

A good "Coarse" is never as "coarse" as it seems.

Seems folks want to be able to stick an incense under a drain hole and see smoke come up through the soil.

I reckon a more appropriate "coarse" is anything just above mud.

I see more feeders in small DE.

I got a picture around here somewhere about why more small roots grow in small soil. Lemme see if I can find it.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

If we understand that feeder roots more or less grow ON something, especially in the "coarse" scenario that leaves airy voids that will drykill a root, you can see from this simple illustration why thinner soil will create more feeder roots faster, there is simply more surface area to grow on.


Sorce

 

[dbonsaiw]

I seriously cannot believe my eyes - this guy is breaking bud. Short of throwing it in a tree chopper or planting it in cement, I basically did everything possible to kill it. Given its tenacity, it has been named "Balboa".

This was definitely a learning experience and I now know better how to treat my newer arrivals (we can't count on all trees being this determined). I will continue to treat him as an experiment and see how things go. I was never really going for the Ebihara treatment (I didn't even know what that was when I nailed him to the board). Rather, I was trying to ensure a radial nebari. It seems that the board is not needed to accomplish this and I have not incorporated a board/tile in any of my other repots. I would probably use one for ground growing though.

This tree has taken a beating so I'm not really inclined to repot him again this year. I will revisit him next year and share pics of what the root system looks like. I'm going off of memory at this point, but there really wasn't a whole lot of feeder roots on this when last planted. Just a handful of spaghetti.

The tree also has awful wire marks from my repeated bungling. I will observe how it heals over time so I have a frame of reference.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Quick update - leafing out nicely.

 

[ShadyStump]

I killed a siberian elm once.
You're doing FANTASTIC!!!!!!

 

[dbonsaiw]

Growing

 

[19Mateo83]

Very nice! That tree is on a mission to survive!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Good job!

Maples can be tough critters…. if you leave some roots and let them free in conditions they like! Beware the heat of July/August on root pruning years though.

The proof is in the styling…. that‘s where the rubber begins to meet the road.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[dbonsaiw]

Beware the heat of July/August on root pruning years though.

I'm looking into shade cloth (recommendations???) and will probably add some moss to the top when it heats up.

The proof is in the styling…. that‘s where the rubber begins to meet the road.

Luckily, this guy's a long way off from styling.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

For shade cloth and such I usually head to here they have decent quality all around.

One thing that happened during the Big Heat Dome event last year is all of the Maples with spring root work suffered. Misting, full shade whatever… nothing worked well. Quite a few just couldn’t stand the 114F heat even though their root pruning was the same amount as another next to it. I retrospect I think likely that It could of been the amount of top hamper each was carrying. I was thinking out of the box, like maybe chopping off all the foliage to reduce the transpiration load. I didn’t, too many intangibles.

That’s when I discovered which of the maples in our collection were robust. I root worked all the experimental ones again this year, despite all,,,, not as hard though… gotta love that experimenting!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[dbonsaiw]

Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check it out.
survival of the fittest.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I realized this tree was going nowhere fast. The trunk is super thin, stick-straight and had really large internodes (probably the opposite of "good material"). As it will be a long time before this tree is anywhere near a bonsai, I figured I would take some steps now to get it on a better track and see what I can do with this. So I chopped the trunk down to the lowest growing branches and trimmed those down as well. The tree is responding well and backbudding nicely, with really low buds popping. I'll update with some pics as soon as there is some more growth. In the interim, I am thinking about developing this as a split trunk.