Bonsai Forest
Omono
Illustration corresponding to actions taken in Bonsai Q Fallen Branch YT video:
Making a “Fallen Branch”
- Thread starter Bonsai Forest
- Start date
WinstonWolfe
Yamadori
I can't find the video. Would you mind posting the link for me?
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
Excellent illustration!
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ShimpakuBonsai
Chumono
Adamski77
Shohin
one thing to watch for is that the best looking "falling branches" come out straight down from the trunk... so they don't first go up and then fall down... so the way you mount rebar has to be properly done.
I saw a version of it where the rebar is mounted below the branch and end of rebar is touching the trunk of the tree... but in the same thread somebody said that a lot of branches done this way died subsequently... so something to watch for as well...
I saw a version of it where the rebar is mounted below the branch and end of rebar is touching the trunk of the tree... but in the same thread somebody said that a lot of branches done this way died subsequently... so something to watch for as well...
Bonsai Forest
Omono
Great point
In my mind, the method to use for a fallen branch is to use a chisel to partially separate the branch from the trunk at the collar. Bend it down and place a pebble in the split to hold it open. Cover with cut paste just to insure that it doesn't dry out. The cut is made on the top side of the branch so as not to completely sever the connection to roots. Again, to my mind all of the raffia and such is only going to create an unbelievable/unnatural bend.
Applicative
Mame
bwaynef
Masterpiece
That's very similar to what Boon teaches as well, illustrated on a couple different pages of his wiring diagram that he covers at each Intensive. (He's told of a similar operation with a Zuisho pine during his apprenticeship that grew (and callused) so strongly it pushed the pebble and cut paste out and the branch raised again. It took 2-3 times before the branch finally behaved and healed.)
Bonsai Forest
Omono
Variety of techniques are available to use to accomplish fallen branch style. Featured in my post is merely one of several. It is a reliable method as are others. It is a matter of personal preference from artist to artist.
This changes “the method” into “a method.”
bwaynef
Masterpiece
It's wise to consider the pros and cons of each technique and decide which is applicable for a given situation. While there are lots of techniques to accomplish things in bonsai, sometimes one really is better.
Dogestoevsky
Mame
@Bonsai Forest which method has produced success for you? How have they healed over?
Hartinez
Masterpiece
Would also love to see your applications of this method and the successes you’ve had.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
You’re very new and working with small material so far from what I have seen. Your drawing is over-engineered unless it’s a very large branch, and there are many ways to go about moving branches. Maybe you’re just providing your own understanding on someone else’s video, but actually doing it is different than drawing it.
Done the way this drawing shows, the #5 Guy Wire would not hold on the backside of the trunk, and could create damage to the trunk.
The branch needs to be broken in a controlled manner, and all the wires, raffia, and rebar prevent the ability to control the break, so it will snap where it is weakest, or where all the hardware creates the stress. That isn’t something we want to leave to chance on an important branch.
The #3 copper wire is unnecessary, and if the bend is made with the wire to the inside as shown, it can also cause damage.
Done the way this drawing shows, the #5 Guy Wire would not hold on the backside of the trunk, and could create damage to the trunk.
The branch needs to be broken in a controlled manner, and all the wires, raffia, and rebar prevent the ability to control the break, so it will snap where it is weakest, or where all the hardware creates the stress. That isn’t something we want to leave to chance on an important branch.
The #3 copper wire is unnecessary, and if the bend is made with the wire to the inside as shown, it can also cause damage.
Bonsai Forest
Omono
Everything you need to see and learn is in the YT video someone else posted.. me being new has nothing to do with it and the material belongs to the Japanese master in the video working on his tree.. the illustration, then, is perfectly aligned with how he created the fallen branch and my illustration is scaled down because I drew it on paper and a pen.. I understand your need for seniority and authority, but the artist in the video did not snap or break his fallen branch (as you claim would happen).. with all due respect, everything you have said in your critique is contradicted by the work the artist performed in the video where my illustration came from.. if you have a personal problem with his techniques, then contact him in Omiya Japan and let him know he's doing it wrong.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I haven’t watched the video, and don’t need to. Not every tree or practitioner in Japan is great just because it’s there.
I’ve been doing heavy bending techniques for a couple decades. Here is an example from 2011; this tree was my 4th entry to the US National Bonsai Exhibition. My work, not a drawing based on someone else’s video. I don’t need “seniority and authority”, I have earned it.
Welcome to the ignore list...
littletreefarmer
Sapling
This gave me my internet entertainment for the day, thanks. Just shows, internet points or number of comments does not make good trees.
Everyone wants to be an artist, no one wants to be a craftsman. Body of work...
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
I dunno. I am happy to someday just be a hack who is capable of shaping trees the way I want.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
But but but… in real life, and most particularly with deciduous, the branches first come up then slowly fall down by their own weight as they grow in size and length.
In some species such as live oak, this up then down is very pronounced.
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