Little Larch starter bonsai

[mrt]

Hi,
I just got this little larch. I believe it is a L. Kaempferi.
I bought it in a bonsai store in the starter trees section :-D
so I think this tree has already a good number of branches and the trunk looks perfect for a formal upright form.
What do the experts here in the forum think about this tree?
The trunk diameter is comparable to my thumb. I like the tree and I believe a bonsai can be started from this, but I am unsure what I can do right now. Any hints?

It is also interesting to note that there are some buds growing right at the trunk, something which I think is unusual for larches, as far as I know.

 

[coltranem]

Hi,
I just got this little larch. I believe it is a L. Kaempferi.
I bought it in a bonsai store in the starter trees section :-D
so I think this tree has already a good number of branches and the trunk looks perfect for a formal upright form.
What do the experts here in the forum think about this tree?
The trunk diameter is comparable to my thumb. I like the tree and I believe a bonsai can be started from this, but I am unsure what I can do right now. Any hints?

How big of a tree do you want? There are lots of possibilities. Typically you want a ratio of height to width of 6 to 10. So think about that vs what you currently have.

It is a bit late to repot for larches as the buds are pushing needles. If it were mine I'd probably be looking to beef up the trunk more by letting the top run and possibly a lower branch or two to add some taper.

It is also interesting to note that there are some buds growing right at the trunk, something which I think is unusual for larches, as far as I know.

i think this fairly common for young material like this.

 

[rorror]

If you want a formal upright, look at some pictures of how old larch treegrows.
Then you will see that in the top (1/3th of top branches), the branches go a bit upwards. In the middle(1/3th) more horizontal with the end of tips going back up. And lowerbrances(1/3th) hanging a bit down, with the end of tips going back up. You can do that now with wires.
Then also try to keep the conical shape of the tree.
During growing season. in the top 1/3th of branches, take off 2/3th or a little more off the new shoots.
In the middle, you remove about half the new growth. In the lowest branches you can keep about 2/3th.
This results in less growth in the top, more growth in the lower branches.
If you not do this, you upper branches will get thicker then your lower branches.
Larches will grow in multiply flushes of growth in the summer, so you will have to pinch it a few times during the season.

i think this fairly common for young material like this.

Agreed, all my young larches / and collected larches until a age of around 8years will make buds on the trunk, as long as there is enough sun on the trunk.

I have flowers and pine cones this year on my young larches. And trunks are less then tickness of my pink. Maybe that is more special then buds on the trunk.

 

[mrt]

So if I understand it correctly, I can wire some of the low branches, but for now I should not prune anything, right?

 

[August44]

Thats actually a pretty nice larch with very good branching and a nice trunk. You can wire now if you want to put some movement in the trunk and branches, but be prepared to remove the wire if it starts to bite in.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

One thing about larches is they tend to concentrate a lot of growth in the apex so you typically end up with a mess of branches up there that need regular thinning. Also once larches reach an age where the bark on the trunk and main branches is too thick for them to put out new buds there, you end up with long lanky branches with all the needles near the ends. So to manage and prevent that you need to periodically cut back these main branches in favor of new buds as they still appear near the trunk. It is a matter of replacing the old primary branches with new growth. Fortunately larch grow like weeds which is both a blessing and a curse. Watch some of Nigel Saunders YouTube videos on his larches.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Good starter material. Wire only as necessary right now.

Give the pruners a rest. Get your Larch horticulture down cold first and check out possible design variations.

I’ve seen a good deal of nice material starter turn not as good after folks rush into design.

btw: please click on your icon on top of the page, then click Account details, scroll down to location and USDA zone and enter your approximate location and USDA zone. This way folks can provide you with better advice.

best of luck!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[August44]

I would also watch the fertilizer this time of year. Larch store lots of energy over the winter and go a little crazy in the spring. They don't need fertilizer at this time. Wait until after the first flush has hardened off and then lightly IMO. If you fertilize to early, you will get long internodes and you don't want that.

 

[mrt]

thanks for the hints. If my tree has lots of buds right at the trunk, will they form new brsnches? because actually I think I could use some more lower branches as they are not evenly distributed along the circumference.
I have another larch that isbprobably 50 yrs old and has many branches, but there, the growth is strongly concentrated to the apex, as cofga mentioned.

I will post some more pictures later

 

[mrt]

Here are two photos of this little larch with better light and a better background. In the first picture, we can see that there is a branch missing on the lower left side. But, right at that place where the branch is missing, there is a little bud that has opened and is pushing out needles.
On the other hand, on the 2nd picture, the tree looks very good with evenly distributed branches and conical shape, as I would expect for a formal upright.
Due to the experiences with my already existing older larch, I am afraid that this tree will also "give up" the low branches in favour of the apex, i.e. if I don't trim the apex, it grows and grows, whereas the lower branches will no longer grow. If my theory is true, then I would need to prune the apex such that the tree can put some more effort into the lower branches. No?

 

[leatherback]

If my tree has lots of buds right at the trunk, will they form new brsnches? because actually I think I could use some more lower branches as they are not evenly distributed along the circumference.

It wil, if you hold other branches back (Pruning) and make sure the buds get loads of sunlight

 

[mrt]

It wil, if you hold other branches back (Pruning) and make sure the buds get loads of sunlight

So should I just cut any new growth of all other branches, or how do I proceed best?

 

[August44]

You might want to understand something...you have a tree with existing branches. We all hope that the branches on the bottom of the tree are the bigger ones and they become smaller as they go up the tree. We also hope that there are the right number of branches in the right places on the trunk. It's a lot easier to work with what you have verses trying to grow a branch to fill in a bare space. The new branch will be smaller and out of proportion. Yes, if you understand how to do it, you can let the new, smaller branch run with no pruning and hope it catches up and becomes the right size, but that is going to be iffy IMO. If there are buds growing on the trunk that are not needed, I personally, would just rub them off. I would also get rid of any buds on branches growing straight down or straight up. Get the tree's energy focused where you want it to be, not on growth you don't need that you will have to hack off later. Just my opinion of course.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

You might want to understand something...you have a tree with existing branches. We all hope that the branches on the bottom of the tree are the bigger ones and they become smaller as they go up the tree. We also hope that there are the right number of branches in the right places on the trunk. It's a lot easier to work with what you have verses trying to grow a branch to fill in a bare space. The new branch will be smaller and out of proportion. Yes, if you understand how to do it, you can let the new, smaller branch run with no pruning and hope it catches up and becomes the right size, but that is going to be iffy IMO. If there are buds growing on the trunk that are not needed, I personally, would just rub them off. I would also get rid of any buds on branches growing straight down or straight up. Get the tree's energy focused where you want it to be, not on growth you don't need that you will have to hack off later. Just my opinion of course.

That approach doesn’t work with larch. Branches will just get longer and push new buds towards the ends and you eventually will be left with pompoms on the ends. Instead with larches you constantly have to prune them back to closer in buds while they are still being produced and grow out replacement branches while you still can.

 

[August44]

That approach doesn’t work with larch. Branches will just get longer and push new buds towards the ends and you eventually will be left with pompoms on the ends. Instead with larches you constantly have to prune them back to closer in buds while they are still being produced and grow out replacement branches while you still can.

Not sure I understand what you are saying here Cofga. Maybe, before I say I disagree with you, you might explain what you disagree with a little better. I understand trimming growth back to the first bud to get good short internodes. As I said, I would not allow buds to grow straight up or straight down...waste of energy. Same with buds on the trunk unless you have a hole you need to fill.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

The problem with larch is that as the branches age they lose the ability to push new buds towards their base. So unless you like branches with all the growth towards their ends you have to cut back the old branch leaving the buds closets to the trunk and allow one of them to grow out and form the replacement branch. Take a look at this video:

Larch in the Spring

Looking at Larch, mainly Japanese Larch an what we can do with them in the spring. Featuring a special guest....If you found this useful and want to support ...

www.youtube.com

 

[August44]

Cofga, I tried to listen to that you tube video. That guy has to learn to speak a little differently and get to the point a bit faster. He just rambles on and on. I'm not sure I can listen to the whole thing. Is there a condensed version somewhere? I did get the impression that he was talking about 40-50 yr old and older trees. I'm 78 so that has nothing to do with me. I'll take a look up in the Mts next time I'm up and see what old larch look like.

 

[mrt]

I also find it difficult to listen to that video, because it is so long.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

That’s just Peter Warren being himself. He’s a brilliant artist, yet a bit halting in his speech, resulting in a bit of random cadence that is hard to follow. I found using headphones and turning on the close captioning really helps in most instances.

In this video gives a long dissertation on his experiences that, so skip to around 9:35 just before he shows the two photos. After that one can pretty much shut down at around 1:03::30

cheers
DSD sends

 

[mrt]

Thanks for all the hints. I am not 100% sure which way is the right one to go, as I have no experience yet with larch.
However, I just gave it a very slight pruning; from the lower branches, I cut off almost nothing, but from the top branches I cut off more such that the lower branches are not weakened. Also I cut off the terminal buds, as I leanred that these may inhibit the growth of other buds and this also should improve ramification.
I also put wire on these branches that are very steeply pointing upwards and guided them a bit more horizontally.
Will post some photos later. I hope I did it the right way
Further, as far as I understood from some other Youtube videos about larch bonsai, I shall pinch the new growth slightly, probably in May, to further improve the ramification.