Limber Pine -- SoCal

[Scriv]

Hey All,

How do we think Limber Pine would fare in the heat of Southern California? Not particularly native to the area except for at higher elevations. I don’t see really see them at any of the nurseries or in any of the gardens down here. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Ruddigger]

I havent tried any Limber yet, but the Lodegpole I had didnt last long.

 

[penumbra]

I believe it would do poorly in you heat and possibly humidity. It is listed as zone 4-7.

 

[yenling83]

Unfortunately, I think most high mountain pines like Limber will not do well in So Cal past 4-6 years. Likely due to not getting cold enough/chill hour requirements in the winter. A hypothesis thrown out by Michael Hagedorn in his book Bonsai Hersey was the Day/Night temp differential might not be great enough either. You could always graft the pine with a pine foliage type that works in So Cal-like black pine and it should do well for the long term.

I've kept Ponderosa's, Jeffery's and Lodgepole pines happy for about 4-5 years in San Luis Obispo County, CA. But after that they slowly start going down hill unless you over winter them somewhere. Hope that helps.

 

[Kanorin]

Limber pines are generally found at even higher elevations than ponderosas and lodgepole/shore pine. If I had to guess, they would be fine for the summer, but would not get enough winter dormancy as @yenling83 said.

 

[Scriv]

Unfortunately, I think most high mountain pines like Limber will not do well in So Cal past 4-6 years. Likely due to not getting cold enough/chill hour requirements in the winter. A hypothesis thrown out by Michael Hagedorn in his book Bonsai Hersey was the Day/Night temp differential might not be great enough either. You could always graft the pine with a pine foliage type that works in So Cal-like black pine and it should do well for the long term.

I've kept Ponderosa's, Jeffery's and Lodgepole pines happy for about 4-5 years in San Luis Obispo County, CA. But after that they slowly start going down hill unless you over winter them somewhere. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the insight, J. I actually just spoke with Randy Knight about this a few minutes ago. He echoed the same sentiment -- heat isn't the issue, they just need to be wintered somewhere cold or they will languish and die over time.

 

[yenling83]

Thanks for the insight, J. I actually just spoke with Randy Knight about this a few minutes ago. He echoed the same sentiment -- heat isn't the issue, they just need to be wintered somewhere cold or they will languish and die over time.

Randy is the man!

Now what you could do, is buy one, board it up at Peter Tea's house and have Peter graft it over. I'd look into Black Pine or if you want to experiment you could use Bishop Pine which is native to CA. Once it's fully grafted you can take it home. Or you could keep the pine at your place in the Spring, Summer, Fall and board it at Peter Tea's in the Winter.

 

[Wulfskaar]

What about Bristlecone pines?

I've got several that I grew from seeds 4 years ago and they are doing great.

My Late summer: Hot and very dry.
My Winter: What is winter?

 

[yenling83]

What about Bristlecone pines?

I've got several that I grew from seeds 4 years ago and they are doing great.

My Late summer: Hot and very dry.
My Winter: What is winter?

That's a great question. I've never had a Bristlecone. I'd imagine there aren't a ton of them in So Cal. My best guess is that they will be similar to other high mountain pines and require a dormant period-but I could be wrong. They are a high mountain pine, where they go dormant in their natural environment.

One thing I've experience, is that young seedlings and cuttings can act very different than older mature trees. For years I was taking Manzanita cuttings. I would bend them, twist them, add shari and deadwood and thought Manzanita was the easiest tree ever for Bonsai. At about the 8 yr mark, my Manzanita started slowly having health issues. Where as my younger Manzanita were bullet proof. Eventually they all died... Sad story, hope someone can figure it out in the future.

Maybe if we sap tested and balanced the nutrition perfectly, found the right soil mix, cultivated the right mychoriza relationships. But it's hard to tell. That's not to discourage you with Bristlecone Pines in So Cal, It would be super legit if they did well and I would add some to my collection.

 

[Wulfskaar]

That's a great question. I've never had a Bristlecone. I'd imagine there aren't a ton of them in So Cal. My best guess is that they will be similar to other high mountain pines and require a dormant period-but I could be wrong. They are a high mountain pine, where they go dormant in their natural environment.

One thing I've experience, is that young seedlings and cuttings can act very different than older mature trees. For years I was taking Manzanita cuttings. I would bend them, twist them, add shari and deadwood and thought Manzanita was the easiest tree ever for Bonsai. At about the 8 yr mark, my Manzanita started slowly having health issues. Where as my younger Manzanita were bullet proof. Eventually they all died... Sad story, hope someone can figure it out in the future.

Maybe if we sap tested and balanced the nutrition perfectly, found the right soil mix, cultivated the right mychoriza relationships. But it's hard to tell. That's not to discourage you with Bristlecone Pines in So Cal, It would be super legit if they did well and I would add some to my collection.

I guess I'll found out at some point. The only thing I can say negatively about mine are that they grow very slowly, probably slower than if they were in the Rocky Mountains. But they are still growing.