Let's Compare Bodies!!

[HorseloverFat]

So in @Colorado 's ceramic thread, I was speaking of initiating a Clay Body/Brand discussion.

I feel it will serve as a neat tool to help folks find the best clays for their current needs/uses/methodology.

So.... What clay bodies do YOU normally use? ...perhaps, why?

What Clay Bodies/Brands have you tried out in the past?

What did you enjoy/dislike about them? ...and, perhaps, why?

What kind of clay bodies are you looking for, that others have lacked?

What do you LIKE in a Clay Body? ...and, perhaps, why?

...y'know?

That kind of discussion!

I think it'll be the Eels Ankles.



I have to cook dinner and do Spanish lessons with the boys, so I'll be on here later to break down my specific observations...

But in the meantime, just gonna call a few potter friends here who I KNOW love to talk clay, AND won't consider me "annoying" for summoning them.

@sorce @penumbra @Pitoon @mwar15 @vancehanna @ABCarve @Sputnik 184 @JeffS73 ...just a handful... I even had more qued up, but stopped at 8... Well 9.. cause I called TJ, first, technically.

 

[HorseloverFat]

@michaelj , too. Cause we're chatting bodies/firing techniques in my "Stoned" thread anyways.

 

[sorce]

They're all the same according to location. With a % difference in materials just to be different.

Real gangsters, @NaoTK make their own clays.

Y'all know.

Me and my guy at Ceramic Supply joke about selling only shovels and buckets.

If you need more.

You're not a potter!

Dig it?

Standard Clays all Days. If you're East of the Sipp.

547, 266, 710, 365, 101, 130.

Sorce

 

[Cajunrider]

Man I saw the thread and was just about to say "Fatter than I should be!" then I realized that it was about pot.
Hmmm... I don't smoke, so I'm out of this.

 

[NaoTK]

You're not a potter!

I will get on my soap box and echo @sorce that potters should know everything about their clay and glaze by making it themselves. Even if you use store bought please try making these yourself once so you understand what goes into it. Pottery is treated like boxed cake mix today, anyone can buy the same clay and bottled glaze and it all looks the same. But it is easier to make clay and glaze than you think.

Shoji Hamada is one of my pottery heroes... he used local clay and his glazes are simple. A true oribe is rice ash, clay, feldspar, and copper. So 4 ingredients. His kaki glaze is one volcanic ash and that's it.

A simple cone 10 clay recipe
25% feldspar
25% kaolin or fire clay of your choice
25% ball clay of your choice
25% silica

Try different fire clays, try local clays, play with iron content, add grog, fire at multiple cones, track your recipes with glaze software.

I had too much fun making this

 

[HorseloverFat]

Echoing @sorce and @NaoTK , understanding clay body/glaze CHEMISTRY as well as FABRICATION are of premier importance.

You guys KNOW I'm on THAT wagon.. c'mon!
I've dug, processed, fine-tuned and learned, inside-and-out, my local clays, as well as a myriad of tempers/minerals/natural implements and how they RELATE to my local clays...I did this for over a year..

The opportunity for much learning was taken.

One thing I learned, though, is my local clays are all low-fire.

But I'm excited for pulling buckets on my way down to Florida.

My aim (through sampling and trials) is to learn where to dig, when... Eventually I'd be making high-fire mixes, consistently enough, that purchasing "bag clay" would be out of the question.



But UNTIL then...

I, also, like many other potters here, REALLY like

AM547, It's strength and versatility is WELL documented.

AM480 is becoming a favorite of mine, in refection the speckling pulls fantastically, and has QUITE low absorption and fairly low shrinkage. Also, fires notably "light".

Actually, the AMACO bodies are all very consistent, and well documented/tested/parameters-disclosed. Some are for my uses, some not, but the transparency and ordering ease (not to mention price) is a big considering factor.

AM101 is the first stoneware I ever worked with, and a pretty damn decent basic white/buff clay. I just had to learn to be slower in drying/flipping hardening wares, and also slower in raw-glazing "passes"... After that, it was smooth sailing.

AM38 a high-white/fireclay blend I love everything about it, BUT it's shrinkage rates, for me, were impossible to get out 'ahead' of... probably good for sculpting.

AM 710 Strong, consistent... Brown... A well-performing all-around dark clay. Good for structures, as well. Wear a mask when working past leather (you should be anyways, but this one is more important) ,

AM.. um 50?... The base porcelain one... Large firing range and very low shrinkage and slower drying... Good stuff.

I tried two bodies from.

Rocky Mountain Clay Company... And was not pleased, personally for my uses, from start to finish..

I do not want to "bash" a body that somebody worked hard to craft... So, while appreciating the passion, will leave it at that.

I tried some "Walmart" style brands like

Sio-2.... Their impalpable grog mixes where always such fun to work WITH... BUT I, personally ran into problems, maybe related to my methods, about HALF the time, by completion.

Every single body I have used from

Georgie's, has been PHENOMENAL
I have used the

TL-structural (probably the strongest 'smooth clay' I've ever worked with)

Dark Chocolate trail mix - awesome building, great for structures.

The

PAT HORSLEY bodies were ABSOLUTELY splendid... a TAD 'shrinky' but not bad AT ALL.

I've tried Laguna's best mix... It lands a strong "medium" in my book.

I've worked with Paoli clay, too... But I didn't have control over those firings... So I cannot give a comprehensive analysis

 

[HorseloverFat]

I will get on my soap box and echo @sorce that potters should know everything about their clay and glaze by making it themselves. Even if you use store bought please try making these yourself once so you understand what goes into it. Pottery is treated like boxed cake mix today, anyone can buy the same clay and bottled glaze and it all looks the same. But it is easier to make clay and glaze than you think.

Shoji Hamada is one of my pottery heroes... he used local clay and his glazes are simple. A true oribe is rice ash, clay, feldspar, and copper. So 4 ingredients. His kaki glaze is one volcanic ash and that's it.

A simple cone 10 clay recipe
25% feldspar
25% kaolin or fire clay of your choice
25% ball clay of your choice
25% silica

Try different fire clays, try local clays, play with iron content, add grog, fire at multiple cones, track your recipes with glaze software.

I had too much fun making this
View attachment 453905

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!;

THAT'S better than the 'Cone 11' one!

 

[penumbra]

I think digging your own clay is fabulous and noble. But not only do I lack the time to do it but I also lack the stamina. Whether or not it is cost effective is a different issue. Commercial clays have become very expensive and there are some that are over a dollar a pound. If you have a close by accessible source of a good clay body, that is fabulous. Most of us don't. I couldn't dig and process clay if it was in my back yard. Those days are behind me.
Back to the economic incentive, even with the high price of commercial clays, it is more prudent for most potters to buy rather than dig. In the time it would take me to process and dig 100 pounds of clay, I could make 100 pots, dishes etc. And with commercial clays you pretty much know what you are getting. I have done a couple rebuilds on kilns that were damaged by firing local clays which produced meltdowns. At least two other kilns were completely ruined. This is not the kilns fault but the fault of the potter for not doing more testing. In fact, any potter that digs clay or makes glazes should have a dedicated test kiln, or one hell of a lot of good luck.
I personally know of no commercial potters that dig their own clay but I have known several hobbyists that did. Glazes is another issue and if you have the space, time and fortitude, it can make sense.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Everyone's input, so far, is EXTREMELY appreciated, let's keep it rolling...

As far as understanding chemistry/composition of clays, physics of firing...

I encourage everyone to look into a few of their favorite commercial clays... And see if there are crossover tempers that MAKE the clays 'the ones' that you enjoy the most... It's fairly interesting.

 

[NaoTK]

I don't think people should or can dig their own clay (I don't for my production stuff) but from a cost perspective it is much cheaper to make your own clay

 

[HorseloverFat]

If it's what we're discussing, let's also compare notes on local bodies..


I am only familiar with 2

My Wisco local - the best of it is crimson when green, yellow buff when fired reduction. Fires 'best' at 06.. starts post-crumbling at cone 1.. and is black and melty at cone 5.. Reasonable shrinkage (depending on the recipe) but almost NO absorption... Weird!!

Chi-town local (from Sorce)--.I did NOT work WITH nor PROCESS any of this clay... But IT... Is yellow-buff when green... But Maroon/Burgundy when fired. Fires well to 08... Starts it's "back to the earth" campaign in between c 1 - 2. Low shrinkage, moderate absorption.

 

[penumbra]

I don't think people should or can dig their own clay (I don't for my production stuff) but from a cost perspective it is much cheaper to make your own clay

View attachment 453907

That is fabulous. Believe it or not that is about what I paid for commercial clay some years back. Not any more.
Can I ask what kind of mixer you use and how much it sells for? Not that it really matters 'cause I can't even afford a pug mill.

 

[NaoTK]

That is fabulous. Believe it or not that is about what I paid for commercial clay some years back. Not any more.
Can I ask what kind of mixer you use and how much it sells for? Not that it really matters 'cause I can't even afford a pug mill.

I used a large trash bag for many years, you can make 50 pounds or so at a time this way. Now I use a pug mill that will also do 50 pounds. I don't have a clay mixer but I'm thinking of getting one. Believe it or not many clay stores do custom mixes for cheaper than their commercial recipes. I recently ordered 1000 pounds of my custom mix this way. I use A LOT of clay, ~200 pounds a week.

 

[NaoTK]

...but I derailed this discussion for everyone so sorry. These are the retail clays I have used a lot of with older pics:

Laguna
rod's bod - really nice speckling but you can't build large with it.


Dark brown- it can take a cone 10 reduction without bloating and you can go large, very sandy


Georgie's

Three finger jack- bland color but you can go large. hard to throw


three finger jack red- this one bloats at cone 10 reduction but you can build large- this is 24". too much iron imo


santiam- nice color but you can't go large

 

[JeffS73]

I'm not yet making my own clays, we have some very nice stoneware clays in the UK, that look great in reduction, but they almost never have absorption data. I'm testing and tweaking every one I buy to reduce absorption, or warp less and look the way I like. Making clay is beyond my current plans, I'll be more inspired if/when I build a gas kiln.

I am making glazes, and for some I'm sourcing local materials like iron rich shale, limestone and fern and tree ash. It's surprising what's around. Native trees, in pots with glazes made from local materials is one of my goals.

 

[NaoTK]

I'm not yet making my own clays, we have some very nice stoneware clays in the UK, that look great in reduction, but they almost never have absorption data. I'm testing and tweaking every one I buy to reduce absorption, or warp less and look the way I like. Making clay is beyond my current plans, I'll be more inspired if/when I build a gas kiln.

I am making glazes, and for some I'm sourcing local materials like iron rich shale, limestone and fern and tree ash. It's surprising what's around. Native trees, in pots with glazes made from local materials is one of my goals.

Last weekend I made a giant batch of true oribe glaze using my neighbor's fireplace ashes.. I mix the glaze with my hands to break up chunks. My hands started to feel really soapy then they started to sting. The lye from the ashes was turning my skin to soap. Will wear gloves with this one!

 

[JeffS73]

Yikes! I'll try my oribe glaze using found materials as well. The Japanese recipe I have is a limestone base with copper.

I've been spending an age on this:


It's an Iron blue phase separation glaze called DDM222, which I think is close to Nakawatari era Namako. I can repeat what I want on a test tile but not on a pot yet!

 

[HorseloverFat]

Thank you for taking the time to share, @NaoTK .

I really like Georgie's for a 'bag clay' every body I've tried

I'm not yet making my own clays, we have some very nice stoneware clays in the UK, that look great in reduction, but they almost never have absorption data. I'm testing and tweaking every one I buy to reduce absorption, or warp less and look the way I like. Making clay is beyond my current plans, I'll be more inspired if/when I build a gas kiln.

I am making glazes, and for some I'm sourcing local materials like iron rich shale, limestone and fern and tree ash. It's surprising what's around. Native trees, in pots with glazes made from local materials is one of my goals.

What do you know about the stoneware bodies you USE? Like manufacturer's specs?

We are talking the intricacies and specificities of ALL clay bodies/ingredients NOW.

I'm lovin' it! ,

Last weekend I made a giant batch of true oribe glaze using my neighbor's fireplace ashes.. I mix the glaze with my hands to break up chunks. My hands started to feel really soapy then they started to sting. The lye from the ashes was turning my skin to soap. Will wear gloves with this one!

All of my real successful glazes were ash-built. I burrowed a book on ash glazes/ash chemistry from a local potter... Fantastic stuff..

If you know that leafy matter ash, for the MOST part contains silicone and possibilities of trace coloration minerals (also smaller amounts of flux)...

...Whereas hardwoods and softwood ASH contain MOSTLY flux, with certain woods containing more stabilizing flux also...

So knowing all this you can CONTROL your burns and somewhat 'set-up' your ashes..

Fascinating as all get-out!

And yeah.... Don't dig around in it for too long, wet, with bare hands.

 

[penumbra]

I am so envious to those who can do cone 10 and above reduction.
I was planning a larger raku kiln with cone 10 reduction firing capabilities, but who knew life would go by this fast.
Could still happen.

 

[NaoTK]

I've been spending an age on this:

It's an Iron blue phase separation glaze called DDM222, which I think is close to Nakawatari era Namako. I can repeat what I want on a test tile but not on a pot yet!

A man after my own heart!

Are those line blends? Are you firing in complete oxidation?

Namako is really tricky, and I went down some wrong roads because of how I was firing. Ignore me if you know all this, but a true namako is only calcium and boron phase separation. You can cheat with rutile/cobalt. Modern floating blues are not historic namakos, but whatever. In the kokufu, you often see failed namakos that are labelled as kinyuu. You don't get the phase separation in neutral or reduction.

These are the exact same namako glaze in different parts of the same gas kiln, for example:


The other problem with namako is you get the best phase separation at low alumina levels, but these are too glossy for bonsai. If you look at antique namako pots, they get around this by cooling reallllly slowly and they are also covered in patina. So we are fighting an up hill battle today.

my box of namako: