Larch branch dead or will come late

[Nishant]

Hello Friends,

There are a few banches on one of my larch on which the buds are not swelling up. The remaining branches have buds start to enlarge. I am wodering if this is normal for some of the branches to be late in waking up. Its been about two week since I have been noticing this difference.

Please share your experience.

Thanks

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I had some weaker branches wake up later, maybe a week and a bit.
But if the buds don't turn that typical shiny gold in that period, I'd do a scratch test if I were you. See if there's some live green in there. If it's only brown, then it's dead.

 

[Nishant]

Dont want to try the scratch test as that will be the final one? I did try to bend some of the branches to see if they snap. It did not and so I am holding the faith.
How big can this difference between wake-up times be?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My dead larch was pliable and didn't break even after the bark fell off. It only snapped after the wood dried for a couple months.
I don't know the maximum difference between wake up times.

A scratch test doesn't have to be final, if you have a sharp knife you can make a small cut that would heal in a matter of weeks. Work your way from the tip of the branch towards the trunk, there might still be some green somewhere down the branch.
If the branch itself looks wrinkly after a few weeks while the rest is very much alive, it's fairly safe to say the insides of that wrinkly branch are dead.

 

[sorce]

I believe the scratch test has potential to be final, where waiting doesn't. Waiting has few negative side effects.

Sorce

 

[Nishant]

Even if the branch dies, I will keep it as a dead branch. Hope it won't look bad. But I hope the news is good enough. The other larch I have has only just started to swell. So I am hoping its still early. It will be quite a saddening news for me.

 

[LittleDingus]

I don't see any value in a scratch test on a branch. The tree has woken up...it's alive. The branch will either bud out or not. By June you should know

I have little experience with larch. I have 2 laricina. On one, the bottom branches budded out about 2 weeks before the top. On the other, the top budded out but the bottom still hasn't and I suspect those branches are dead.

 

[Nishant]

What can be done to prevent death of branches? I kept the tree away from dry winds, in a semi-tranparent greenhouse. Just few thoughts I have is

(1) Never to prune Larch or Pine in spring. The more folliage it forms, the more roots form. A dense root ball is defenitely going to be helpful to fight off all sorts of odds that a tree faces.
(2) All pruning to be done after sufficient amount of folliage/whips have formed. Pruning/pinching etc in spring has almost no value. Even as strategy to balancing energy flow.
(3)Pruning done in fall at the apex of tree in fall will anyway lead to formation of not so strong buds so even if they were let to grow in the following spring, they will not take away lot of energy.
(4)When you get a matured tree from a far-off location, give it an year to get acclamatised to your weather/climate and so just let it grow for the first year without any pruning.
(5) Its probably better to give tree diffused sunlight rather than direct sunlight. Direct sunlight, perticilarly if intense, will not help the tree anyway. Tree leaves can convert sunlight to sugar at a certain rate only. Any excess sunlight will only cause drying effect.

 

[LanceMac10]

Ever see a Larch in the wild? Most branches are dead....they have no problems sloughing off weaker branches in favor of apical growth/extension.

 

[Nishant]

Yes True they do shed. But Bonsai is all about keeping the branches going on, year after year. Not everything in nature is beautiful spontaneously.

Also my main worry is that what is it that the previous owners were doing correct and which I did wrong? Was it just a significant change in weather? I kept the trees in full sun and watered the trees well. I now think that was wrong. I should probably have given moderate sun and so I would have not have to water too often either.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Larches are very much known to be branch droppers, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It just happens.
The balancing act is important though and it works different compared to most conifers because it requires multiple shoot prunings a season. I described somewhere on this forum - but I really don't remember where - how I balance my own larch to prevent it from dropping weaker branches: bending them towards the light and reducing the strongest branches.

Partially shaded branches will get weak, fast. A guy living two blocks away lost twelve larches last year because they were all shaded out; they never had the excess energy to produce extensions, and they produced two "rims" of needles in summer.
Temperature can be a killer, full sun usually isn't. But going from the shade to full sun can be destructive since the tree isn't acclimatized to that levels of light.

The buds on my larches have formed by the time the needles start to turn color. Removing something afterwards can lead to dieback, but it's usually just a few buds if the cuts aren't severe.

 

[LanceMac10]

Larches are very much known to be branch droppers, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It just happens.
The balancing act is important though and it works different compared to most conifers because it requires multiple shoot prunings a season. I described somewhere on this forum - but I really don't remember where - how I balance my own larch to prevent it from dropping weaker branches: bending them towards the light and reducing the strongest branches.

Partially shaded branches will get weak, fast. A guy living two blocks away lost twelve larches last year because they were all shaded out; they never had the excess energy to produce extensions, and they produced two "rims" of needles in summer.
Temperature can be a killer, full sun usually isn't. But going from the shade to full sun can be destructive since the tree isn't acclimatized to that levels of light.

The buds on my larches have formed by the time the needles start to turn color. Removing something afterwards can lead to dieback, but it's usually just a few buds if the cuts aren't severe.

Yes, at least with my native Tamarack. Any branch that gets shaded out will give way to ANY "higher" growth relatively quickly.
You'll need to deal with this via strategic pruning. As mentioned, you have to "regulate" growth. They bud spirally on the branch, so it's telling you it's desperate to grow out. Focus the energy where it's needed to keep your chosen branches.

Full sun is something that might not be good dependent on the size of the container, though. In a pot, soil surface shade, (terra-cotta shards, t-shirt, etc ) may be needed to keep roots relatively "cool".
Or have a bit larger container like @Forsoothe! Larch composition.

 

[Nishant]

Its a bit sad to learn after losing something nice trees. I too am coming to learn that Larches need cooler summers for both root and shoot portion. For my tree, the sun was literally frying it in summer and I was spraying it with water to cool down, but naturally the water used to dry up too soon.

I just am waiting to see how things develop in next few weeks. Hope the tree forgives me this one time.

 

[Nishant]

Yes, at least with my native Tamarack. Any branch that gets shaded out will give way to ANY "higher" growth relatively quickly.
You'll need to deal with this via strategic pruning.

Thanks LanceMac10:

I think this will be the way forward, let the tree grow a bit more height so that the loss of the branch can be accomodated in new design.

 

[leatherback]

(5) Its probably better to give tree diffused sunlight rather than direct sunlight. Direct sunlight, perticilarly if intense, will not help the tree anyway. Tree leaves can convert sunlight to sugar at a certain rate only. Any excess sunlight will only cause drying effect.

I fully disagree. Larix is a tree of sun. Braches that are shaded out are dropped.
Challenge is, that they dislike hot roots.

 

[Nishant]

I fully disagree. Larix is a tree of sun. Braches that are shaded out are dropped.
Challenge is, that they dislike hot roots.

@leatherback , Thanks for your reply and your point about the hot roots. I agree with that.

But tell me this, are trees some kind of machine that give them any X watts of light energy on thier folliage ( that is not reflected back ) and they will lock the light energy into sugar molecules. If not then would the excess light not just heat up the leaves, branches etc.

 

[leatherback]

Leaves can get saturated. Yes. Excess energy is absorbed and water is evaporated to keep the leaves cool. Which will drive water up the trunk, bringing more nutrients.

Each species of plant has optimal growing conditions. Put an understory plant in full sun, and it will succumb. But put a colonicer or canopy species in deep shade, and they will struggle, too. That is the whole idea of understanding individual species needs.

 

[Nishant]

Leaves can get saturated. Yes. Excess energy is absorbed and water is evaporated to keep the leaves cool. Which will drive water up the trunk, bringing more nutrients.

Each species of plant has optimal growing conditions. Put an understory plant in full sun, and it will succumb. But put a colonicer or canopy species in deep shade, and they will struggle, too. That is the whole idea of understanding individual species needs.

The evaporation you mention is not something the tree would be happy about. Its only an odd that the tree has to face. Nutrients coming along will not do so much good as heating and cooling being occuring on plant cells/tissues.

In a diffused light environment, the situation is different. The sunlight is never focussed on specific area of the tree and so that I would think is better.

 

[leatherback]

The evaporation you mention is not something the tree would be happy about. Its only an odd that the tree has to face. Nutrients coming along will not do so much good as heating and cooling being occuring on plant cells/tissues.

In a diffused light environment, the situation is different. The sunlight is never focussed on specific area of the tree and so that I would think is better.

I guess you know plant fysiology better than me.

 

[Waterboy]

I fully disagree. Larix is a tree of sun. Braches that are shaded out are dropped.
Challenge is, that they dislike hot roots.

Good point, I've had a literati European larch for 30 years, every 3rd, 4th or 5th year one of the branches just doesn't come back in the spring, including this year. I've scratched my head about many times, considering watering, pruning, shoot pinching, disease, infestation, wiring but have never been able to put my finger on it. Last year was one of the hottest we've had in the UK for a long time. It's in a relatively shallow drum pot, maybe roots over heating is possibility, sound feasible. Thanks