keep misting juniper?

[bonsaiDerek]

ive got a juniper yamadori that I got this spring out in Utah, its been slowly recovering, growing roots this summer by misting every day, just started to grow now foliage in the past month. now that its late October, I'm still misting it, but what about winter storage here in Wisconsin? and do I still mist the foliage after everything freezes?

 

[sorce]

@wireme provided some info about misting being possibly detrimental.
For a completely different outlook that may convince you of something.

New foliage is a sign you have roots, especially after so long, confirming it isn't stored energy.

I think @0soyoung maybe @parhamr I mix them PNWrs up, haha! Have information about the science behind transpiration, it can't happen(or something) if the humidity is over or near 100%.

I feel if your humidity is like here, and there, I reckon, near or over 80% usually, simple wind protection should be enough to keep transpiration low enough to keep the plant from dying before it grows roots.

I wouldn't mist, especially not in winter.

Watch the humidity.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Long term misting is counterproductive. You are supplying fluids that should come from the roots and essentially thwarting the fluids back-and-forth system. Transpiration transports N, P, K, and other elements from the soil that you haven't supplied, and also exchanges sugars back to the roots for root growth. Roots have no other source. It's as though you have kept the plant on an IV all summer. The lack of growth is whose fault? Now that the plant is going into winter where it has to depend upon its roots for energy to wake up next spring, it does not have a summer's worth of root growth. Unfortunate.

 

[wireme]

@wireme provided some info about misting being possibly detrimental.
For a completely different outlook that may convince you of something.

New foliage is a sign you have roots, especially after so long, confirming it isn't stored energy.

I think @0soyoung maybe @parhamr I mix them PNWrs up, haha! Have information about the science behind transpiration, it can't happen(or something) if the humidity is over or near 100%.

I feel if your humidity is like here, and there, I reckon, near or over 80% usually, simple wind protection should be enough to keep transpiration low enough to keep the plant from dying before it grows roots.

I wouldn't mist, especially not in winter.

Watch the humidity.

Sorce

So, here’s the story I was told about misting when it came up elsewhere one time. We’re talking about misting collected junipers/conifers that have comprises or non active roots systems from collection. Mist to cool and provide humidity so that the foliage doesn’t loose moisture that it has a hard time getting from roots. I was told that misting on a hot dry day will cause stomata to open up when the foliage gets cool and moist but once the mist quickly evaporates there is just more net moisture loss because stomata are now open in the hot and dry.

I don’t know if that’s accurate and don’t make any claims myself, just something I was told that makes me wonder. It does make sense but I don’t know if stomata really react like that. I still mist newly collected trees myself on the basis that as far as I know most successful collectors say it’s the thing to do. I will however set up a system to hold humidity for much longer than a misting in the open if it’s a very special tree and/or the rootage seems to dictate special care. Aside from the foliage wetting that happens during watering I’ve never misted into fall and winter.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I repotted my J. procumbens back in the spring and pruned back the roots quite a bit so I misted it regularly all summer and up until a week or so ago when things cooled off significantly. It ignored my transgressions and has grown like a weed all summer. Stomata can react quite quickly in response to changes in humidity so I doubt that is a big factor to be concerned with.

 

[bonsaiDerek]

Long term misting is counterproductive. You are supplying fluids that should come from the roots and essentially thwarting the fluids back-and-forth system. Transpiration transports N, P, K, and other elements from the soil that you haven't supplied, and also exchanges sugars back to the roots for root growth. Roots have no other source. It's as though you have kept the plant on an IV all summer. The lack of growth is whose fault? Now that the plant is going into winter where it has to depend upon its roots for energy to wake up next spring, it does not have a summer's worth of root growth. Unfortunate.

ive read that some collectors keep their trees in misting houses for over a year, and they come out with great roots where there were almost none to start

 

[Forsoothe!]

That's not close to what we're talking about. That's used as a propagation method where plants are suspended in mid-air with nothing on their roots. They are sprayed every X number of minutes with an ideal solution of water & fertilizer and have ideal lighting typically 16 hours a day. I don't think it should or could be done with mature plants, especially temperate deciduous trees. Or Pine trees for that matter.

 

[bonsaiDerek]

That's not close to what we're talking about. That's used as a propagation method where plants are suspended in mid-air with nothing on their roots. They are sprayed every X number of minutes with an ideal solution of water & fertilizer and have ideal lighting typically 16 hours a day. I don't think it should or could be done with mature plants, especially temperate deciduous trees. Or Pine trees for that matter.

This was a mature yamadori juniper in the article

 

[Forsoothe!]

This was a mature yamadori juniper in the article

Got a Link, I'd like to learn more?

 

[bonsaiDerek]

Got a Link, I'd like to learn more?

I'll look for the article

 

[Adair M]

Got a Link, I'd like to learn more?

Misting is one of the keys to success with collected junipers.

I don’t think you have any experience with collecting junipers, and their immediate aftercare. I don’t either, but I am friends with several people who are collectors. Successful collectors in California. And they DO mist the junipers!

I don’t know for how long, and I know their climate is not like Wisconsin. So, when to stop is an open question. But, the basic concept of misting newly collected material is sound, and has raised the percentage of successes dramatically.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I slow down misting collected junipers when it is clear they are growing...sending a few “runners” usually indicates the same thing is happening under the soil surface too. Has It grown since collection? How are you overwintering it?

 

[bonsaiDerek]

I slow down misting collected junipers when it is clear they are growing...sending a few “runners” usually indicates the same thing is happening under the soil surface too. Has It grown since collection? How are you overwintering it?

Its grown a little. Had very few roots so I plotted its roots in spagnum moss with rooting hormone surrounded by bonsai soil
Probably going to winter it in an unheated garage

 

[PaulH]

I don't think it should or could be done with mature plants

Its done all the time with native juniper yamadori collected with few roots. Its the accepted way to succeed with good collectors I know. When I started timed misting on my collected junipers my survival rate went from about 50% to close to 100%.

 

[leatherback]

A friend of mine collected some 40 very large 40+ year old junipers. Full canopy drench every few hours for the first month. Twice daily for the whole growing season only to let up when nature took over from him, with fall rains.

 

[bonsaiDerek]

Its done all the time with native juniper yamadori collected with few roots. Its the accepted way to succeed with good collectors I know. When I started timed misting on my collected junipers my survival rate went from about 50% to close to 100%.

Thank you

 

[Forsoothe!]

Its done all the time with native juniper yamadori collected with few roots. Its the accepted way to succeed with good collectors I know. When I started timed misting on my collected junipers my survival rate went from about 50% to close to 100%.

Wow! News to me.

 

[bonsaiDerek]

I'll look for the article

here is that article https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/

 

[thomas22]

Misting makes sense to me. Think of a California Juniper growing in the desert with hot dry summers and very sandy dry soil. How does it survive? Hot days but the one thing the desert has are cool nights where there is dew over everything in the mornings. So it make sense Junipers have adapted to take in moister through their foliage to get them through summers. I have no research to back up this theory but this sounds logical to me.
So misting collected Junipers that lost a ton of roots would help hydrate the tree until the new roots had a chance to grow.

 

[sierrajuniper]

Its done all the time with native juniper yamadori collected with few roots. Its the accepted way to succeed with good collectors I know. When I started timed misting on my collected junipers my survival rate went from about 50% to close to 100%.

Hi Paul,
How many times a day do you mist your collected juniper? Do you do light mist or heavy mist? Thanks Paul.