JWP bud selection?

[backuppedro]

Just wanted some advice on bud selecting please.

Do I use same approach as other pines? Choose 2 similar sized buds side by side. The jwp I have has at least 5 buds in each area.

 

[Shibui]

This will depend what stage your tree is up to.
In general, only keep 2 shoots at any point.
BUT, it may be better to cut back behind the new shoots to help compact ramification.
A look at the tree will be necessary before any definitive answer.
Would also be useful to know which part of the world you are growing in.

 

[backuppedro]

This will depend what stage your tree is up to.
In general, only keep 2 shoots at any point.
BUT, it may be better to cut back behind the new shoots to help compact ramification.
A look at the tree will be necessary before any definitive answer.
Would also be useful to know which part of the world you are growing in.

Uk here and the tree is 4-5 years old

 

[Shibui]

4-5 years old is age. It says nothing about development. Poorly grown 4-5 year old pines will still be sticks. Well grown it could already have secondary ramification or might be long and leggy, needing harder pruning to force secondary growth closer to the trunk/roots.
It would be really helpful if you added a location to your personal profile so we can get a feel for your local climate because so much of what we do is influenced by local weather and climate.
Pictures of any tree in question helps fill in all the details you may have neglected to describe.

 

[backuppedro]

4-5 years old is age. It says nothing about development. Poorly grown 4-5 year old pines will still be sticks. Well grown it could already have secondary ramification or might be long and leggy, needing harder pruning to force secondary growth closer to the trunk/roots.
It would be really helpful if you added a location to your personal profile so we can get a feel for your local climate because so much of what we do is influenced by local weather and climate.
Pictures of any tree in question helps fill in all the details you may have neglected to describe.

Habing trouble navigating and finding where to edit profile. Only see edit banner

 

[backuppedro]

4-5 years old is age. It says nothing about development. Poorly grown 4-5 year old pines will still be sticks. Well grown it could already have secondary ramification or might be long and leggy, needing harder pruning to force secondary growth closer to the trunk/roots.
It would be really helpful if you added a location to your personal profile so we can get a feel for your local climate because so much of what we do is influenced by local weather and climate.
Pictures of any tree in question helps fill in all the details you may have neglected to describe.

 

[Shibui]

Thanks for the photos. Now I can see what you have and don't have.
Your original question is about reducing buds but I think you need more than just reducing buds on a couple of areas of this tree.
For the shorter branches, thinning the buds is a great approach. That will give ramification as those branches develop.
I've marked 2 long sections of the tree where you have no side branches. Simply reducing the terminal buds won't usually do anything about that long, bare section. It will just give you a side branch and new leader way out at the end. More drastic action required there IMHO.

Maybe the left branch I marked is redundant so won't need ramification but I see you've wired and bent the main trunk so I guess you see it as important in the future of the tree? It currently has needles all the way along so looks OK but in 2 years those needles will all drop off leaving you with a nicely curved but bare trunk with no side branches in that section. Is that going to be OK?
I would be cutting back well behind the new buds on the main trunk. Removing all new buds will force new shoots from the needle clusters back along your trunk. Those new buds will be available to develop more side branches in following years.

Hope this makes some sense.

 

[backuppedro]

Wh

Thanks for the photos. Now I can see what you have and don't have.
Your original question is about reducing buds but I think you need more than just reducing buds on a couple of areas of this tree.
For the shorter branches, thinning the buds is a great approach. That will give ramification as those branches develop.
I've marked 2 long sections of the tree where you have no side branches. Simply reducing the terminal buds won't usually do anything about that long, bare section. It will just give you a side branch and new leader way out at the end. More drastic action required there IMHO.
View attachment 618979
Maybe the left branch I marked is redundant so won't need ramification but I see you've wired and bent the main trunk so I guess you see it as important in the future of the tree? It currently has needles all the way along so looks OK but in 2 years those needles will all drop off leaving you with a nicely curved but bare trunk with no side branches in that section. Is that going to be OK?
I would be cutting back well behind the new buds on the main trunk. Removing all new buds will force new shoots from the needle clusters back along your trunk. Those new buds will be available to develop more side branches in following years.

Hope this makes some sense

What you say makes sense. I got the tree a month ago it came wired this way. I wanted a jwp in my collection. Have experience with scots and black pine not white/red.
I feel the base needs movement but the grower said formal upright with a height of 30/40cm was their goal. Havent decided yet myself. So ideas, shaping and bud/branch reduction welcomed.
Thanks

 

[Shibui]

Are you sure the grower said FORMAL upright? Formal upright requires perfectly straight trunk. Interesting that they then wired and bent the trunk. Maybe INFORMAL upright? If informal upright i agree that the vertical lower trunk is not ideal. That lower trunk angle is not yet fixed. Check roots in Spring to decide if the roots will allow the trunk to be leaned one way or another.

White pines are single flush species which means you only get one growth spurt each year. Still need to reduce buds and you can still prune back to stimulate new buds from needles or recently bared sections as for other pine species. Just takes all year to see the results.
Red pine is another dual flush species so is treated as for JBP.

 

[backuppedro]

Are you sure the grower said FORMAL upright? Formal upright requires perfectly straight trunk. Interesting that they then wired and bent the trunk. Maybe INFORMAL upright? If informal upright i agree that the vertical lower trunk is not ideal. That lower trunk angle is not yet fixed. Check roots in Spring to decide if the roots will allow the trunk to be leaned one way or another.

White pines are single flush species which means you only get one growth spurt each year. Still need to reduce buds and you can still prune back to stimulate new buds from needles or recently bared sections as for other pine species. Just takes all year to see the results.
Red pine is another dual flush species so is treated as for JBP.

Autocorrect changed from informal, your right yes.
Grower sent some photos of nebari before hand.

 

[Shibui]

Appears to have good radial roots. Great for bonsai but not so great if you want to tilt the trunk but I suspect they will till be flexible enough to adapt to a trunk change if you want to go that way.

Informal sound much more likely. Your grower had lost a lot of credibility with that autocorrect post but now back up in the OK category, maybe even higher with that nebari.

 

[backuppedro]

Appears to have good radial roots. Great for bonsai but not so great if you want to tilt the trunk but I suspect they will till be flexible enough to adapt to a trunk change if you want to go that way.

Informal sound much more likely. Your grower had lost a lot of credibility with that autocorrect post but now back up in the OK category, maybe even higher with that nebari.

Yes i was impressed with roots too. Shame i dropped the ball with spell checking.
You think add movement to base of trunk also then?

 

[Shibui]

You think add movement to base of trunk also then?

Definitely. Vertical trunk at the start of an informal trunk looks odd and it only gets odder as the tree matures.
The trunk is probably too thick to bend successfully with wire but, by planting the trunk at an angle or even just pulling the trunk sideways while leaving the roots as they are you can get a better lower trunk.
I cannot see all the 3D details that would normally be taken into consideration when making changes but maybe tilted something like this?

Obviously need to still have the roots on the level.

 

[backuppedro]

Thanks for the photos. Now I can see what you have and don't have.
Your original question is about reducing buds but I think you need more than just reducing buds on a couple of areas of this tree.
For the shorter branches, thinning the buds is a great approach. That will give ramification as those branches develop.
I've marked 2 long sections of the tree where you have no side branches. Simply reducing the terminal buds won't usually do anything about that long, bare section. It will just give you a side branch and new leader way out at the end. More drastic action required there IMHO.
View attachment 618979
Maybe the left branch I marked is redundant so won't need ramification but I see you've wired and bent the main trunk so I guess you see it as important in the future of the tree? It currently has needles all the way along so looks OK but in 2 years those needles will all drop off leaving you with a nicely curved but bare trunk with no side branches in that section. Is that going to be OK?
I would be cutting back well behind the new buds on the main trunk. Removing all new buds will force new shoots from the needle clusters back along your trunk. Those new buds will be available to develop more side branches in following years.

Hope this makes some sense.

You think remove that long left branch then, not just cut it back(there are 3 very close to each other, so probbaly redundant as you said) and cut back the top?
Will new buds be made or are the buds set for spring now?

 

[Shibui]

Without seeing the tree for real it is hard to be sure of anything but that branch is very long with no side shoots. It is usually difficult for pines to make buds on bare branches so the best result is usually to chop those long branches or to graft new shoots at a good location. Because you have other, better branches close by, I suspect that get rid of it is best and quickest but if you want to see what happens you could prune that branch and see if your white pine will bud on bare branch.
Cut back top so you don't end up with another long, bare trunk. Cutting now will allow new buds to grow from some of the existing needles.

White pine should be able to make new buds for Spring from any needles if pruned any time from now to early Spring. After Spring shoot growth is too late for that year but it should still respond the following Spring. I have a Mugho that was pruned back hard early Summer last. No new buds formed last growing season but now covered in elongating new shoots. (late Spring down here now)