Juvenile Growth on Japanese Black Pine

[Thomas J.]

I fertilize mine with an acidic type fertilizer like the kind you would use on azalea and do it once a week all year on something like this problematic tree. On my regular jbps I stick with the schedule for when and when not to fertilize. If you can get some Boon mix for your JBP that would help significantly although it might keep it drier than you might like in the heat of the summer especially if you have a long time between waterings like you mentioned. Just be cautious with this tree and do nothing except watering and fertilizing for this year.

Where is Hickory Hills located in Illinois?

 

[BeebsBonsai]

I fertilize mine with an acidic type fertilizer like the kind you would use on azalea and do it once a week all year on something like this problematic tree. On my regular jbps I stick with the schedule for when and when not to fertilize. If you can get some Boon mix for your JBP that would help significantly although it might keep it drier than you might like in the heat of the summer especially if you have a long time between waterings like you mentioned. Just be cautious with this tree and do nothing except watering and fertilizing for this year.

Where is Hickory Hills located in Illinois?

Its a southwestern suburb of chicago. When should i be looking to repot? I know the nursery i bought it from was planning on repotting fall/late winter. I dont know if i should push that issue. Knowingg that doing so may harm the tree, but also that not doing so might make the balance of water/oxygen improper. Conundrums conundrums

 

[Thomas J.]

Okay, I'm a former Jolietan and always wondered what I would do if I were still living there when it comes to bonsai since the winters can be brutal there. Here in Texas I repot mine in mid Jan but take precautions for freezes as I can overnight them in my garage. Where you're at it's probably going to be in the early spring for your repotting and you'll also want to keep an eye for freezes then. Hopefully Leo from Ill will chime in here and give you some better advice for repotting than I can. I would definitely wait until then to repot as your tree looks too weak for any work whatsoever.

I will be coming back to Joliet for a visit the first week in August, maybe we can hook up and I can see more of what you have going on. If you're worried about repotting now because of the health of the tree maybe you could just slip pot it with better soil.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Okay, I'm a former Jolietan and always wondered what I would do if I were still living there when it comes to bonsai since the winters can be brutal there. Here in Texas I repot mine in mid Jan but take precautions for freezes as I can overnight them in my garage. Where you're at it's probably going to be in the early spring for your repotting and you'll also want to keep an eye for freezes then. Hopefully Leo from Ill will chime in here and give you some better advice for repotting than I can. I would definitely wait until then to repot as your tree looks too weak for any work whatsoever.

I will be coming back to Joliet for a visit the first week in August, maybe we can hook up and I can see more of what you have going on. If you're worried about repotting now because of the health of the tree maybe you could just slip pot it with better soil.

I keep my trees in an attached garage. Never goes below freezing but comes close. I know it needs an extensive repot soon so while the idea of slip potting might help for the year, but i think id rather wait and do one solid repot next spring.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@BeebsBonsai
Hickory Hills, puts you very close to Hidden Gardens. They are a bonsai orientated nursery, get over there. Good people, knowledgeable, host Walter Pall, Jim Doyle, Owen Reich and others for classes as they come thru town.
Hidden Gardens
16W685 Frontage Road
Willowbrook, IL 60527

www.thehiddengardens.net

You are on Chicago water, Lake Michigan sourced water. It is roughly 225 ppm total dissolved solids and 175 ppm total alkalinity as calcium carbonate. You should not need to adjust pH for JBP. In fact if you are adjusting pH, that could be making problems instead of curing problems. JBP are a salt tolerant, high pH tolerant pine, it is not a sensitive species. Unless you have in your collection sensitive species like blueberries, carnivorous plants, beech, hornbeam, some species of azalea, or Kalmia, no need to mess with the water.

Just offering that as help.

 

[Adair M]

Exactly what mine looked like just before they opened up. I can see that new buds have now set on those juvenile candles. Im hoping they break into mature candles next year.

Im now dealing with another issue. And I think it might be indicating why the tree is so weak. I have yellow tips almost uniformly across the tree. No bands to indicate needle cast, but just a slight yellowing from tip yo anout a fifth down the needle. I dont know if this is indicative of something in the roots or if it is a ph issue. Im on city water so i know its possible. When is the nearest time it would be safe for me to do an extensive repot?

Are the yellow tips on last year's foliage? That's normal. If this year's, Houston, we have a problem!

 

[BeebsBonsai]

@BeebsBonsai
Hickory Hills, puts you very close to Hidden Gardens. They are a bonsai orientated nursery, get over there. Good people, knowledgeable, host Walter Pall, Jim Doyle, Owen Reich and others for classes as they come thru town.
Hidden Gardens
16W685 Frontage Road
Willowbrook, IL 60527

www.thehiddengardens.net

You are on Chicago water, Lake Michigan sourced water. It is roughly 225 ppm total dissolved solids and 175 ppm total alkalinity as calcium carbonate. You should not need to adjust pH for JBP. In fact if you are adjusting pH, that could be making problems instead of curing problems. JBP are a salt tolerant, high pH tolerant pine, it is not a sensitive species. Unless you have in your collection sensitive species like blueberries, carnivorous plants, beech, hornbeam, some species of azalea, or Kalmia, no need to mess with the water.

Just offering that as help.

Its funny you mention them. I purchased this pine from them. They have a beautiful selection unlike any other in the area. Im wondering if this is more of an overwatering issue from the rainy midwestern spring this year. Im relatively new so i tend to err on more water than underwatering. Im currently working on testing how long i can wait between waterigs using the chopstick method. Im seeing a difference in palor. Much less yellow since i have begun waitig longer between waterings

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Are the yellow tips on last year's foliage? That's normal. If this year's, Houston, we have a problem!

This year. They came out nice and green and have gotten that palor since. Only one bud emerged with that color of needles. Im guessingg im overwatering but working on it. If that isnt the problem, it may be chlorination. Ill see how this season goes and if they remain that color i am going to buy one of those in-line dechloronating filters for next year

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Its funny you mention them. I purchased this pine from them. They have a beautiful selection unlike any other in the area. Im wondering if this is more of an overwatering issue from the rainy midwestern spring this year. Im relatively new so i tend to err on more water than underwatering. Im currently working on testing how long i can wait between waterigs using the chopstick method. Im seeing a difference in palor. Much less yellow since i have begun waitig longer between waterings

Now knowing you bought this tree from Hidden Gardens, a real good way to get a good diagnosis is to take the tree back to them to have them tell you what they think. Doing a diagnosis from photos and written descriptions is very error prone. So if you really want good advice, take the tree back to Hidden Gardens, they should be able to give you better ''hands on'' advice than you could get by the internet. Bring a notebook, they may give you a heap of information, depending on how busy they are at the moment. They are great people.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Now knowing you bought this tree from Hidden Gardens, a real good way to get a good diagnosis is to take the tree back to them to have them tell you what they think. Doing a diagnosis from photos and written descriptions is very error prone. So if you really want good advice, take the tree back to Hidden Gardens, they should be able to give you better ''hands on'' advice than you could get by the internet. Bring a notebook, they may give you a heap of information, depending on how busy they are at the moment. They are great people.

Leo,

I have been afraid to. I know that's probably the best route, but since I got it from them, it's one of those moments where you have to ask, "It was in pretty good health when I got it from you, what the hell did I do to cause this problem?" It's totally embarrassing and I have to get my self over that mental block and fear. Put the pride on the backburner and admit the newbie mistake I suppose. They are fantastic and Jeff is incredibly helpful. They have some awesome trees out right now on their benches at a relatively fair price. They are a bit higher than most, but you can see what you're getting in person and you know the tree is strong. I'd recommend checking their stuff out this year if you're in the market for a tree.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@BeebsBonsai - I feel your pain.
I have personally screwed up and killed a few really good trees, one I had been watering for some 35 years, another was a cork bark JBP that I had been growing for 18 years. It was by my own mistakes, my fault. Everyone who has done bonsai for any length of time has killed a number of trees, usually one of the ''best'' in their collections at the time, myself included. I try to learn from each casualty, sometimes I'm depressed for a while, but eventually I get over it. It is part of learning bonsai, and hopefully frequency of killing a tree will go down as you get experience.

After a few spectacular failures we all learn to swallow our pride and admit to others when we are not sure of what we are doing. I guarantee Jeff will not think less of you for asking him to look at your tree. I'm sure in his past there are trees he had problems with, that he wished he stopped and asked someone to look at.

So no shame in asking. Do it if you can bring yourself to do so. I won't ask if you did later.

I do think overwatering could be the cause.
Leo

 

[BeebsBonsai]

@BeebsBonsai - I feel your pain.
I have personally screwed up and killed a few really good trees, one I had been watering for some 35 years, another was a cork bark JBP that I had been growing for 18 years. It was by my own mistakes, my fault. Everyone who has done bonsai for any length of time has killed a number of trees, usually one of the ''best'' in their collections at the time, myself included. I try to learn from each casualty, sometimes I'm depressed for a while, but eventually I get over it. It is part of learning bonsai, and hopefully frequency of killing a tree will go down as you get experience.

After a few spectacular failures we all learn to swallow our pride and admit to others when we are not sure of what we are doing. I guarantee Jeff will not think less of you for asking him to look at your tree. I'm sure in his past there are trees he had problems with, that he wished he stopped and asked someone to look at.

So no shame in asking. Do it if you can bring yourself to do so. I won't ask if you did later.

I do think overwatering could be the cause.
Leo

Beautifully written. I tend to agree. I may make the run up there. Ill let you know whether i do. Sometimes you cant let your fears dictate your actions.

 

[Walter Pall]

You should absolutely bring the tree to Hidden Gardens. They will be of help, I am sure. Jeff is very knowledgable concerning such problems. What a nursery usually is afraid of is customers purchasing healthy trees and bring them back a few months later half dead or fully dead and want a refund. But it does not sound like you are one of those.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

You should absolutely bring the tree to Hidden Gardens. They will be of help, I am sure. Jeff is very knowledgable concerning such problems. What a nursery usually is afraid of is customers purchasing healthy trees and bring them back a few months later half dead or fully dead and want a refund. But it does not sound like you are one of those.

Walter, first of all, thank you very much for responding to my question. I truly appreciate everything you do for the world of Bonsai and have watched just about everything I can on your discussion of Bonsai online. I think I am going to bring it in to Jeff tomorrow. Besides this new yellowing of the tips issue, this tree is actually doing much better than I could have imagined at this time of year. I hope to be at the Prairie State Bonsai Society Show in August. If I am I'll definitely introduce myself.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

I tried to get in contact to set up a time to meet with Jeff of the Hidden Gardens and he is out to the Indianapolis Bonsai Show this weekend. If I posted Close Up Pictures of the white/yellow tips on some of these needles, does anyone think they could help me assess what the issue may be? I won't be home for another three hours or so but I can post pictures then. I have decreased water heavily and that doesn't seem to be bringing green back into these tips.

 

[Adair M]

I tried to get in contact to set up a time to meet with Jeff of the Hidden Gardens and he is out to the Indianapolis Bonsai Show this weekend. If I posted Close Up Pictures of the white/yellow tips on some of these needles, does anyone think they could help me assess what the issue may be? I won't be home for another three hours or so but I can post pictures then. I have decreased water heavily and that doesn't seem to be bringing green back into these tips.

Generally, once needles start turning yellow, they wont go back to green.

Probably the best cure is to repot into new soil next spring.