juniperus pfitzeriana...i was told

[tree4me]

I'd like to take this juniperus pfitzeriana and create something like this.
What would be the best start? I'd like to get it out of the nursery pot 1st and onto a shallower wider training pot. Would it be better to start training, branch bending and deadwood in the nursery pot or reduce roots and place into new pot and wait a year or two and start training?
(not my drawings)

 

[KennedyMarx]

I have two of these I grabbed earlier this year. I cut it back and wired them with an instructor. They've recovered well, but I think I would rather have got them in good soil first then worried about styling. I would get another pot or a grow box, then barefoot balf the rootball without cutting any roots, and repot into better soil. Next year you could work the other half of the rootball. Then the next year work on wiring and pruning. Just some thoughts.

 

[Bunjeh]

Great material

I concur,..get it into some well draining soil and a box first. Ensure it thrives and think about restyling next year.

One insult per year.

 

[tree4me]

So work on replacing soil and improving health this spring and 2016 shaping? Is there any other work I can do this spring without putting too much stress on the tree?

 

[Giga]

So work on replacing soil and improving health this spring and 2016 shaping? Is there any other work I can do this spring without putting too much stress on the tree?

If there's dead wood that can be worked anytime, as long as you not messing to much to break any roots. also maybe remove shot you know won't be in final design. VERY light pruning.

 

[Paradox]

I also got two of these this year. I repotted mine and did some light pruning. They seem to have recovered but didnt really start to put on much growth yet. They were a bit neglected when I bought them. I will wait to see how vigorous the start growing in the spring before I start doing more pruning on them.

Tree4me, repotting is considered a major insult. As was stated, one insult per year to the tree, particularly with conifers and especially with pines. So if you repot next spring which I would also recommend doing, you can do some VERY light pruning. Then you will need to leave it alone until the next spring or you very well may kill it. Dead trees dont make bonsai.
Youve got a good start with that one, so dont rush it.

 

[0soyoung]

Were it mine, I would go ahead with the initial styling (now) and repot this coming spring. Equivalently, styling could be postponed until next spring, but still before repotting it. With such a clear vision I would not want to wait another season before seeing it start to become reality. However, I would prioritize repotting if the tree is weak or unhealthy.

Regardless, when repotting, keep all the roots you possibly can after sawing off the bottom of the pot soil mass - do little additional root pruning and only very gentle combing. Junipers are sensitive to root reduction/damage - IIRC, Ryan Neil describes this as the 'strength comes from the roots' (like Sampson's strength came from his hair - he lost his strength when Delilah cut it).

 

[KennedyMarx]

Ryan Neil has said that about pines (strength comes from their roots) and about junipers that strength comes from their foliage. A pine will tolerate more of a haircut than a juniper and in contrast a juniper will take more rootwork than a pine.

 

[Giga]

Ryan Neil has said that about pines (strength comes from their roots) and about junipers that strength comes from their foliage. A pine will tolerate more of a haircut than a juniper and in contrast a juniper will take more rootwork than a pine.

I second this, junipers are capable of surviving with little roots if the foliage is intact and misted and folige fed. Pines need roots else they will not survive.

 

[0soyoung]

Ryan Neil has said that about pines (strength comes from their roots) and about junipers that strength comes from their foliage. A pine will tolerate more of a haircut than a juniper and in contrast a juniper will take more rootwork than a pine.

I second this, junipers are capable of surviving with little roots if the foliage is intact and misted and folige fed. Pines need roots else they will not survive.

Oops, I don't recall correctly.

Nevertheless, I've lost junipers for what I have interpreted to be root issues and have success when treating the roots rather gingerly. I've not had any similar troubles because of foliage reduction to accomplish a design (Salva's 60 to 20 itoigawa is greater reduction in foliage than I have ever attempted and he seems to be quite confident that it will survive).

Despite my incompetence, ignorance, and addlement, I still would style this pfitzer now or anytime until next spring before repotting, were it healthy and mine. I would remove only what foliage and branches as are necessary to accomplish the design and I would treat the roots gingerly this spring. I also entertain repotting it again next Aug/Sep unless the tree didn't grow vigorously (during next spring/summer).

 

[Giga]

Oops, I don't recall correctly.

Nevertheless, I've lost junipers for what I have interpreted to be root issues and have success when treating the roots rather gingerly. I've not had any similar troubles because of foliage reduction to accomplish a design (Salva's 60 to 20 itoigawa is greater reduction in foliage than I have ever attempted and he seems to be quite confident that it will survive).

Despite my incompetence, ignorance, and addlement, I still would style this pfitzer now or anytime until next spring before repotting, were it healthy and mine. I would remove only what foliage and branches as are necessary to accomplish the design and I would treat the roots gingerly this spring. I also entertain repotting it again next Aug/Sep unless the tree didn't grow vigorously (during next spring/summer).

I agree with everything but re-potting so soon after a major style and root work.

 

[tree4me]

Thanks for the input all. I actually picked up a few of these so tomorrow I'll work on shaping at least 2 of them.
additional questions, can I add additional Shari now and should I clean all of the old bark off.
Thanks again!!!

 

[Giga]

I don't actually know the right time for shari work, but I do it before growth starts and the frosty nights are gone. I would also due it in stages, at least that's what I did though this may be the slow approach. I did this guy in two seasons, though I'd image you could do it in early fall too. Maybe even winter too someone will have to chime in on that



The bark I think can be clean at any point just don't go too deep to hit cambium if you've never done it before, otherwise go for it.

 

[0soyoung]

I think you can make a jin or shari just about anytime. The only concern is that the xylem parenchyma (live cells) are inactive during the winter season and won't compartmentalize the xylem - hence the exposed tissue leaves the whole tree vulnerable to infection. However, torching (cauterizing) the exposed live wood will seal the wood surface. Alternatively, one could simply paint the jin with lime sulfur to preclude a fungal infection (lime sulfur is an old fungicide).

I'll note again that painting the newly exposed wood with lime sulfur will protect the tree from fungal infection. The wood, though, will not bleach as solid white as dead wood. During the early part of the next growing season, the xylem parenchyma will compartmentalize the living tissue and isolate it from the newly dead wood. The dead wood will dry and then the next application(s) of lime sulfur will produce the strong, solid white color that is usually desired for jin and shari.

However, I think choosing the location/path of sharis is likely more important than when.

• If your design focus is on the artistry of the shari, I think you should probably make it (or them) first and then see what you have for foliage and branches after the next growing season.
• If your priority is on the branches/foliage, you might want to just make a few 'divots' in the bark/cambium this season and a few more next and etc., eventually connecting the dots as Kathy Shaner advises.

Of course, one doesn't need to do this if they are skilled at 'reading veins'.

 

[Giga]

Peter tea blog has a lot of juniper work, I would recommend reading his blog too.

 

[Paradox]

I agree with everything but re-potting so soon after a major style and root work.

I agree with Giga. I wouldnt recommend repotting again in Aug/Sept. Aug/Sept is very different in Washington state where Osoyoung is vs NC where the OP is.

You can probably repot in May in NC. Ive repotted in August here (this past August which was very cool for August) and while Ive had survival from that, the trees generally dont do as well as those repotted in June here. I wouldnt repot during a very hot August.

I would wait on doing the shari for another year and I would do it in stages as recommended by a member here, Rob (October) does lots of work on junipers.

 

[0soyoung]

Aug/Sept is very different in Washington state where Osoyoung is vs NC where the OP is.

I really don't think temperatures have any direct bearing on Aug/Sep seeming to be a great time to repot many plants. It is the time that a large number of plants cease shoot extension. Acer palmatum is an exception that temporariiy 'stops growing' in May/June.

But to the point of climate differences, I am in USDA zone 8b, the OP is in 7b which means the OP's winters are generally colder. On the other hand, my growing season is cooler than the OP's. According to averages on the Weather Channel / Yahoo!, temperatures range from 53F to 72F in August where I live and from 50F to 67F in September. Judging by Greensborough and Raleigh, the OP's daily temperatures don't decline into these ranges until about a month later (Sep/Oct). I haven't been able to find a first frost date, but I imagine it is at least 6 weeks after that which would be sufficient for new roots to grow and harden before winter. First frost here is around Thanksgiving.

 

[Paradox]

I really don't think temperatures have any direct bearing on Aug/Sep seeming to be a great time to repot many plants. It is the time that a large number of plants cease shoot extension. Acer palmatum is an exception that temporariiy 'stops growing' in May/June.

But to the point of climate differences, I am in USDA zone 8b, the OP is in 7b which means the OP's winters are generally colder. On the other hand, my growing season is cooler than the OP's. According to averages on the Weather Channel / Yahoo!, temperatures range from 53F to 72F in August where I live and from 50F to 67F in September.

This is exactly my point. I would be more willing to repot in August in your area than where the OP lives. Maybe it is a great time to repot in your area with your cool temperatures, but there is a huge difference between 53-72F that you experience in August and and 85-100F that the OP can typically get in NC. Your August is my late May-early June.

Yes I know that the slow growth and are semi-dormant at high temps. I just dont feel that messing around with the roots and disrupting water absorption during the hottest part of the year is a good idea.

I am at the same climate zone as the OP and we can get frost in early November. I have alot of junipers and I have repotted then in May and June and in late summer. In my experience, junipers repotted in August dont do as well as those repotted in June. So I will stand by my statement that I do not recommend repotting junipers in the heat of August in NC.

 

[tree4me]

What does OP mean?

 

[Eric Group]

What does OP mean?

Just means "original poster"- basically the person who started this thread.