Juniper 'Old Gold' Styling and Progression

[Balbs]

I'm going to document the progression of an Old Gold Juniper in this thread. After staring at it for a year and a half, I think I understand why there are so few threads on this cultivar on here. Anyhow, July of 2019 I came across this tree at a local HD and I liked the trunk and what I could see of the basal flare, so for the 11.98, I gambled. My apologies in advance for the poor picture taking. I really do have to get better about this. So here it is, last july:

About a month later, with little idea how to proceed and a glass (or two-ish) of wine to give me courage, I started cutting branches, wiring and lowering branches, etc.




I hate it, but, I had no idea why. I decided the tree had taken enough of a beating and I just left it alone. So, at the advice of this forum, I bought Principles of Bonsai Design by DeGroot, and read, and studied the tree, and thought, and made sketches, all winter. I wish I had taken pictures, but I drew the tree, measured each segment, and considered it relative to the Fibonacci sequence. I didn't know how to move forward, but the good news was that I figured out what was wrong with it. The lower trunk is stout, has good movement and slight taper (tough to really see in the pictures) but the second trunk section is straight, has little taper, disobeys Fibonacci in length, among other things. The tree was too tall and slender, the line sort of feminine. This wouldn't be an issue on its own, but it doesn't match the first three inches of the tree. It has bar branches. The overall silhouette's triangular shape looks like a Christmas tree.



Fast forward a year later, now it's the end of July of 2020. I'm tired of the COVID monotony, spending a ton of time outside, staring at this tree, and I decided to give it hell. Chop.






Wire. Poor skill, I know. I'm learning.



I think the image above is the best front. The chop gave me better taper, better proportions, etc. The biggest issue is the coarseness/lack of compactness of the foliage. But that's just the cultivar, I think.


So, today, 11/25, I did some wiring. And I was careful. It's not perfect, and I made tons of mistakes, but not for lack of trying. So I'm proud of the work anyway. This week I also came across Smoke's thread about stick figure drawing. This morning I went through the exercise and it really was helpful and eye opening. With that in mind, I moved some of the branches around to create a better overall shape. I wish I had a before picture, but I don't. Here's the result:



And, you know what? I don't hate it anymore. I won't say I love it. The foliage is long and saggy and I'll never change that. But, I'm proud of the work and the progress, and what this tree has pushed me to learn about bonsai through my research. It has some juvenile foliage, and I know I'm pressing my luck, so now I really have to ward off my impatience and leave the damn thing alone.

Happy to take suggestions if you have them.

If you made it through this length post, thanks for reading!

-Marc

 

[Pitoon]

Keep at it, the more you play the better you will become.

Here's my thread on an "Old Gold" I'm working on.

 

[Colorado]

Nice start. I think you’ve given it enough of a beating for now but next year you can clean up the bottom of your pads and further define the apex.

 

[Japonicus]

I could be wrong, and it's been exposed well over a year, but I think if you cover these roots up
removing air pockets, they'll develop better. This picture shows pretty decent even lateral distribution.
I just don't know how much of the smaller fibrous roots there, are still alive.
Good transformation of the trunkline

 

[Balbs]

View attachment 341333
I could be wrong, and it's been exposed well over a year, but I think if you cover these roots up
removing air pockets, they'll develop better. This picture shows pretty decent even lateral distribution.
I just don't know how much of the smaller fibrous roots there, are still alive.
Good transformation of the trunkline

Thanks!

you’re right, I should have covered them initially. They’re dried out at this point. Do you think it’s still worth covering them?

 

[Fonz]

Good call on the chop. But next time (on another tree obviously) you could leave a big stump from the part you cut and make some deadwood from it.

 

[Balbs]

That would have been a good idea...

whoops!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have one too and I'm amazed about how much torture they can endure and how fast they recover.
I'm battling the foliage as well, not sure if I want to see what happens when I don't feed it.. Or that I'm just going to replace it with some grafts.

From what I observed:
- Juvenile foliage with no scale foliage on the ends will have a high chance of staying juvenile -> two years after exposing them to light, those branches still haven't produced any scale foliage whereas the branches with mixed foliage all went scale after a year. But they needle branches have doubled in length and foliage mass.
- Parts with a high exposure to light, especially intense sunlight, will grow in a scale fashion and way more compact. My apex has short internodes and some tufts resembling sabina, but everything below it is leggy.
- After a hard prune, the scale foliage that doesn't convert to juvenile sends out ropey/stringy scale twigs that can reach an inch and a half in length without any branching. Leave those alone for another year, and more compact foliage will start growing from the crotches. A lot like my chinensis does.
- clip and grow techniques don't seem to work very well, the response is pretty much the same every time; long shoots.

I'm going to try to withhold feeding for a year or two, see what happens.

 

[Japonicus]

Thanks!

you’re right, I should have covered them initially. They’re dried out at this point. Do you think it’s still worth covering them?

Well, yes. The larger roots are still alive as they're fed from smaller fibrous roots below.
Covered up they will develop some smaller roots where a bit on the damp side, I mean not dried out, not wet either.
As you begin removing roots from the bottom these top roots become all the more important.

 

[Balbs]

After a hard prune, the scale foliage that doesn't convert to juvenile sends out ropey/stringy scale twigs that can reach an inch and a half in length without any branching. Leave those alone for another year,

Thanks for the information. That’s all really helpful. I noticed those weird ropes and I’m glad there’s a way of handling them. I have some where there’s no branching for an entire inch.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I did a little googling. Juniperus 'Old Gold' is considered by some websites as Juniperus chinensis, and by other websites as Juniperus x pfitzeriana which is Juniperus (chinensis x sabina). The Missouri Botanic Garden considers 'Old Gold' as a Pfitzer type juniper. (x pfitzeriana). I find that MoBot, is one of the more reliable sources to follow.

I have had a few Pfitzer junipers over the years, 'Blaauw' to be specific. and as such handling their foliage is not too difficult. They will revert to juvenile needle foliage if pruned too heavily. They will revert back to scale foliage with good sun and by a less heavy hand at pruning. They tighten up pretty well, and compare favorably to the "standard" Juniperus chinensis cultivar. In other words, they make fairly decent foliage pads. Not quite as tight as 'Itoigawa' or 'Kishu' but better than many other cultivars and species of juniper.

It will take 5 or more years to develop tight foliage pads, but they will develop.

 

[Balbs]

It will take 5 or more years to develop tight foliage pads, but they will develop.

As always, Leo, thanks a bunch for the thoughtful response. How should I approach creating the denser pads?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have had a few Pfitzer junipers over the years, 'Blaauw' to be specific.

The guys who made blaauw the cultivar say it's a variety of chinensis x chinensis. Probably a shimpaku of some sorts. There is no sabina in blaauw.
Blaauw is my favorite, because it grows very puffy foliage that doesn't change color. It can withstand major pruning with very little juvenile foliage in response. Shaded parts also don't revert very easily.

Blue = blaauw, top right = old gold, bottom = itoigawa. For reference.

 

[coltranem]

I agree with you I like where you ended up with the styling. One comment. After the trunk chop you had a nice compact tree. You the bent branches back up a reduced the apparent size of the trunk. If you could have worked with the hunched over shape you'd have had a more powerful image. Again nothing wrong with your final image but something to think about last time.

I have one of these from HD too. Trying to get less leggy branches before attempting a styling.

 

[Balbs]

I agree with you I like where you ended up with the styling. One comment. After the trunk chop you had a nice compact tree. You the bent branches back up a reduced the apparent size of the trunk. If you could have worked with the hunched over shape you'd have had a more powerful image. Again nothing wrong with your final image but something to think about last time.

I have one of these from HD too. Trying to get less leggy branches before attempting a styling.

That’s a really good perspective. I definitely didn’t see the tree that way. Thanks for the insight!

I’d be interested to hear your approach to getting the branches less leggy.

 

[coltranem]

So I am trying to get foliage closer to the trunk. My approach was to cut off unnecessary branches to let in more light. I have been trying to fertilize hard this year. I trimmed back some of the stronger tips in August to hopefully transition some energy to the inner growth. However this year I went light since I repotted this spring. Hopefully next year it will take off more if it grows strong.

 

[canoeguide]

I hate it, but, I had no idea why. I decided the tree had taken enough of a beating and I just left it alone. So, at the advice of this forum, I bought Principles of Bonsai Design by DeGroot, and read, and studied the tree, and thought, and made sketches, all winter. I wish I had taken pictures, but I drew the tree, measured each segment, and considered it relative to the Fibonacci sequence. I didn't know how to move forward, but the good news was that I figured out what was wrong with it.

This is a really satisfying story. It's a relatable lesson too: hate something, do research, work to understand deeper, draw some conclusions, and eventually make some informed changes.

I don't have any personal opinion one way or another about your starting material, but I'm curious: after reading DeGroot's book and looking at this tree for a while, would you choose it again if you saw it in the store today?

 

[Balbs]

Thanks @canoeguide . I think I would still take a chance given the movement in the lower trunk and the cheap price tag. But now I would have probably recognized it as a shohin right away. Although, now that I’m writing this, maybe not since the growth habit is too leggy to ever be a good shohin. So, maybe not.

 

[Balbs]

Update: it’s basically all scale/juvenile foliage this year. Does that mean that I just leave it alone?

 

[Eckhoffw]

View attachment 379787View attachment 379788
Update: it’s basically all scale/juvenile foliage this year. Does that mean that I just leave it alone?

Looking good!
isn’t scale foliage the mature foliage on this juniper?