John Naka's Bonsai Techniques 1. FREE

[Eric Group]

Ever wated a copy of this book just to read but can't afford the $200 price tag to get a copy these days?

http://www.slideshare.net/xiamujahid/bonsai-technique-vol1-by-john-yoshio-naka

Not sure how the copyright stuff works on this site, but I didn't post it... Sure as Heck read the thing today though! I used to have a copy so it was all review but what a great read anyway! Nice to have a copy online for reference... Wish I could find volume 2 on this site also!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Makes me sad...

I know John is no longer with us, and it will only be a matter of time before his work becomes public domain, but I hate to see his work given away for free without his permission.

 

[bwaynef]

Ever wated a copy of this book just to read but can't afford the $200 price tag to get a copy these days?

Unsigned, they don't go for $200. Mine didn't anyway. If I could find mine, I'd be happy to get rid of it though.

 

[Poink88]

Unsigned, they don't go for $200. Mine didn't anyway. If I could find mine, I'd be happy to get rid of it though.

I think I bought both of mine for $50 each. I think one is signed though I didn't really care for the signature personally.

 

[RKatzin]

I think anyone who payed to have such a great work should be pissed, I am.

 

[Eric Group]

Makes me sad...

I know John is no longer with us, and it will only be a matter of time before his work becomes public domain, but I hate to see his work given away for free without his permission.

I was under the assumption this already was public domain, or they would have removed it... But it also looks like the guy that posted it lives in another country, so who knows how all that works...

 

[Poink88]

I was under the assumption this already was public domain, or they would have removed it... But it also looks like the guy that posted it lives in another country, so who knows how all that works...

I do not think so.

I wouldn't post it...and try not be part of the problem.

 

[Eric Group]

I think anyone who payed to have such a great work should be pissed, I am.

Well, you are free to feel however you want about it... However, I think what you are paying for when purchasing a book like that is having a hard copy available whenever you want to look at it, maybe You could also say you are paying for the collectibility of a classic that is out of print... Heck, say whatever you like, but surely you cannot possibly consider this poorly done reproduction as anything but a barely readable "preview" of the actual book itself. I also hope you wouldn't believe that the info contained here is anything close to proprietary at this point either... The details of this book's contents have been reproduced in some form or fashion in every Bonsai website, magazine, book... Written in the USA over the past 35 years! Much of the info though still accurate, is outdated and many would consider it to be not the best approach at this point- soil being a good example... The stuff that is still considered up to date, I changing... Can be found literally everywhere! Glancing back throw the descriptions of styles, rules and even the drawings here in this book it makes me laugh when I think of all the places I have seen the words copied almost down tot he letter and drawings that were nearly identical in scope and description... Hard to say that you really need to go purchase THIS book to get this info any longer.

While I can see the thought of having paid for something readily available on the net might upset some people... You can find almost anything on the net for free these days if you look hard enough! So, virtually anything you might buy from books to DVDs, computer programs and video games... Should illicit the same reaction.

I wasn't posting this link to upset anyone, just wanted to give those who get sticker shock when they search for copies of some books access to the valuable info contained here! I wouldn't go posting a slide show of a book myself, but I thought this was a pretty good find and whether a bit outdated or not, this is THE definitive resource for Bonsai in the US. At the very least it is a good read for anybody who hasn't read it before.

 

[Neli]

If one wants to there are ways to download it. Some body emailed it to me but it is from the same source.

 

[jeanluc83]

Some things to think about:

Say someone purchased a book for $30 then sells for $100. They profited by the sale and no additional money went to the author. Is this wrong?

Now instead of selling the book they make a copy it and gives it to a friend for free. No profit was made. Is this wrong? What about for 10 copies? 20?

What about a book that is no longer in print? The profit from any copies that are sold does not go to the author. Is this wrong?

You get onto a slippery slope when you start talking about intellectual property.

 

[Poink88]

We all have a different moral compass. All of us make mistakes, some realize it and correct it, some justify it (by their beliefs, interpretation of the law, religion, culture, etc.).

To try to convince them otherwise is (most of the time) futile.

Just to clarify. I am one of "them" (both camps). I correct at times and justify some. And yes, convincing me could be futile too! LOL

 

[KennedyMarx]

I read the entire thing from that link on my ipad a couple of nights before you posted the link. Thought about posting it here, but forgot about it. I'm not surprised at the reactions. I think the bonsai community is pretty conservative.

Intellectual property laws need reformed badly. People need to get paid, but at a certain point a song/film/book/etc becomes part of the culture. And the person has been dead, in this case for more than a decade, and the book in question has been out of print for how many years now? I can't say I'm sorry for reading a scan of the book rather than paying some person that had nothing to do with Naka or his family an inflated amount for a hard copy.

 

[sikadelic]

I most certainly would prefer a hard copy and am trying to find one for a good price. I just want it in my hands while working. Ebooks just dont do it for me.

 

[michaelj]

Ever wated a copy of this book just to read but can't afford the $200 price tag to get a copy these days?
...
Not sure how the copyright stuff works on this site, but I didn't post it...

I can tell you how it works. This is an infringement, and by posting it, you are assisting in the infringement.

Some things to think about:

Say someone purchased a book for $30 then sells for $100. They profited by the sale and no additional money went to the author. Is this wrong?

Now instead of selling the book they make a copy it and gives it to a friend for free. No profit was made. Is this wrong? What about for 10 copies? 20?

What about a book that is no longer in print? The profit from any copies that are sold does not go to the author. Is this wrong?

You get onto a slippery slope when you start talking about intellectual property.

It's not a slippery slope. It's a fairly well-defined path. Society has enacted laws that answer these questions. The answers, in order, as defined by the law and until the book goes into the public domain, are no, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. My understanding is that this was first published in 1984. It will therefore go into the public domain in 2074 (70 years after John Naka's passing)

 

[Poink88]

I can tell you how it works. This is an infringement, and by posting it, you are assisting in the infringement.

My thought as well but I wasn't sure. It is like aiding and abating or being an accessory.

 

[Eric Group]

I can tell you how it works. This is an infringement, and by posting it, you are assisting in the infringement.

Oh the SHAME of being involved in such nefarious criminal activity! Please don't send the cops to come get me, they may uncover my sinister ring of illegal jaywalkers and that cutting I made that one time of a copyrighted CrEpe Myrtle!

I was saying I don't know how the copyright laws work in regards to the site where this book was posted- is it a foreign website? Is the person who posted it foreign? If so, how do OUR laws affect people in the country where the website is based and/ or the country where the individual who posted it lives... Nobody here knows where, so it is virtually impossible to intelligently discuss the legality of his posting this book. Again, I sincerely doubt that a 35 year old book being scanned into a website is going to catch a second look from anybody who prosecutes for these types of things... Even if it did, how do you know I didn't post this in the hopes that it would draw attention that would eventually lead to this item being removed and the micrient responsible being thrown into the deepest darkest dungeon imaginable?

Regardless- since nobody here posts it, nobody here asked him to post it and nobody here is John Naka... Why not simply take advantage of what the INTERNET WAS MADE FOR- the FREE GLOBAL exchange of information. Crappy copies like this are useful as nothing more than a preview of a good book and are generally more likely to lead someone to PURCHASE a hard copy of the book than it is to discourage someone from purchasing it in my experience. What is the difference between this and borrowi the book from a friend, reading it and returning it to them? Oh, the friend purchased the book right? Did this guy not most likely purchase the book? Yeah, he probably did....

The funniest thing about this to me is- the copy I once had of this book was bought for me from a book sale at an old library years ago. The copy as I received it was just that- A COPY. It was comprised of a bunch of photocopied pages bundled together in a ring binder! It was subsequently destroyed by my roommates' dog, so I think it is pretty cool to find a copy online we can all look at! If y'all want to argue the legality of someone posting this, go right ahead... It just made me smile to see someone took the time to honor it by spending hours scaning it into his website.

 

[jeanluc83]

It's not a slippery slope. It's a fairly well-defined path.

What is moral and what is legal can be different things.

How about this, you go to a class and included in the class material is a photocopied section of Naka’s book. This is legal as it is fair use of the work for educational purposes. After the class you give the photocopy to a friend who could not make it to the class. This is not legal because it is distribution of copyrighted work.

 

[bwaynef]

Oh the SHAME of being involved in such nefarious criminal activity! Please don't send the cops to come get me, they may uncover my sinister ring of illegal jaywalkers and that cutting I made that one time of a copyrighted CrEpe Myrtle!

Its Crape.

I was saying I don't know how the copyright laws work in regards to the site where this book was posted- is it a foreign website?

The domain is hosted by a company in Mountain View, CA. The IP the server's hosted on belongs to a company in Mountain View, CA (LinkedIn). With that information, I'd assume this is hosted on US soil, but haven't checked that out just yet. I say that with 95% certainty.

Is the person who posted it foreign? If so, how do OUR laws affect people in the country where the website is based and/ or the country where the individual who posted it lives... Nobody here knows where, so it is virtually impossible to intelligently discuss the legality of his posting this book.

US Business, likely on US soil. US laws apply.

Again, I sincerely doubt that a 35 year old book being scanned into a website is going to catch a second look from anybody who prosecutes for these types of things...

So you're not breaking the law unless you get caught?

Even if it did, how do you know I didn't post this in the hopes that it would draw attention that would eventually lead to this item being removed and the micrient responsible being thrown into the deepest darkest dungeon imaginable?

This comes off as shutting the door after the chickens got out.

Regardless- since nobody here posts it, nobody here asked him to post it and nobody here is John Naka... Why not simply take advantage of what the INTERNET WAS MADE FOR- the FREE GLOBAL exchange of information.

Cite your source. That's what it's become, but I'd like to see your source where it says that's what it was made for.

...

It just made me smile to see someone took the time to honor it by spending hours
scaning it into his website.

This could be done in about 3 minutes with the right (inexpensive) equipment. (It obviously wasn't because this was poorly done.)

 

[fviljoen963]

Putting something into the world of today and expecting the world to abide by made up rules about how people may acces that info is like a 3rd grader taking hos birtday cupcakes to school and dictating who can get a cupcake and who cant

Its childish and unrealistic. Firts and foremost he wanted to share knowledge- thus the book.
If he wanted to make profit above all else- he would have opened a business.

Just an idea... this whole pick-a-side thing about copyright?
Im pretty sure protection on SHARING of info is less important in the East
Claiming work to be your own which is not is something different


Fuse lit, package thrown, runs away

 

[MidMichBonsai]

This whole conversation is a bit silly.

This material is copyrighted and reproducing it in this way is illegal. Should it be...I don't know.

Act on what your conscience allows, knowing that what your conscience allows, our current court system may not.