Hello. I'm a novice when it comes to pine bonsai. Someone local to me has a few Japanese black pines for sale and I have two main questions. Firstly, do you think these look like JBPs? Secondly, do you think zone 10a is appropriate for pines? I'm in San Diego. Thanks.
JBP in zone 10a?
- Thread starter Tony328
- Start date
Wulfskaar
Masterpiece
Welcome, Tony!
JBP will work great in San Diego. I'm up the coast from you, and they seem to grow great.
I don't see anything that tells me they're not JBP, but I'm not an expert in pine ID.
If you do get these, I'd suggest getting some expert support here on bonsainut.com as to the next steps, or even, if you should try to get better ones.
JBP will work great in San Diego. I'm up the coast from you, and they seem to grow great.
I don't see anything that tells me they're not JBP, but I'm not an expert in pine ID.
If you do get these, I'd suggest getting some expert support here on bonsainut.com as to the next steps, or even, if you should try to get better ones.
jevanlewis
Mame
Most, if not all, of the pines in the Japanese Garden in Balboa Park are JBP. They do great in your area.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I lived in the OC for years and grew tons of JBP. I grew many from seed. They do great there.
Thank you for the advice! Do you think these trees (3-4ft tall BTW) may be a bit too mature and are beyond the ideal age to train into small bonsai? I'm used to Juniper and maples which can be cut back aggressively and will still bud back easily.
If these trees are cut way back will the old needle nodes bud out? How much do I risk killing the tree. As I understand it, taking off the new candles haults the growth for the season but encourages bud back.
The seller has these tree available for relatively cheap so I figure the risk is low to experiment. Although perhaps JBP are more common than I thought here in Southern California and finding cheap stock isn't that rare. Thanks.
If these trees are cut way back will the old needle nodes bud out? How much do I risk killing the tree. As I understand it, taking off the new candles haults the growth for the season but encourages bud back.
The seller has these tree available for relatively cheap so I figure the risk is low to experiment. Although perhaps JBP are more common than I thought here in Southern California and finding cheap stock isn't that rare. Thanks.
hemmy
Omono
Hard to say, but they don’t look like Canary or Italian Stone pines which are the other common types grown in California. JBP have 2 needles per bundle (although many other pines do also).
Age isn’t so much a factor as low branching or buds to continue the trunk line and branches. JBP will send out needle buds when chopped, but it’s best to reduce long sacrifice branches in stages. They can bud from wood (dormant needle attachments where the needle was removed and bark has developed?), but it is very rare and should not be relied on.
They hold their needles for 3 years, I like to chop for backbudding in summer at decandling time. But don’t decandle the next branch you will use for a leader. Figure you’ll get the best buds from 1-2yr needles.
Needle removal is also a strategy balance energy and can promote back budding.
hemmy
Omono
Good bonsai stock with low branching is less common and more expensive. Normie nurseries will have Thunderhead or other landscape varieties. They will usually need to grafting to make bonsai and often have branch whorls that leave too large of a scar.
If they are affordable for you and you have space, I see some potential and possibly good workshop trees to learn on with more experienced teachers.
Here’s my quick take. 1st picture twin trunk may have more trunk buried before nebari. Both trunks are likely too large to bend easily. But the smaller trunk looks like it could have a new low branch for a new leader. If so, I’d cut the thickest trunk to the first whorl and leave only one branch with a few needles. Following years you will remove it and use the next trunk or new leader to heal the scar. The thin leader can have needles stripped off out to last year’s needles on the ends. It has a long internode and likely can’t be bent or used without grafting.
2nd picture, long trunk few branches. Has that one low branch on left that could be new leader but also looks like it has a low scar or wound which could limit potential. Depending on flexibility of the main trunk maybe some advanced bending, could produce a taller tree or literati using the first group of larger branches.
3rd picture, tree with long branches but no needles. This one would likely need grafting to get branching closer to the trunk. It might be a fun learning project that you’d eventually sell once you get more advanced.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers
Ruddigger
Omono
Zone 10 is prime JBP zone, no issues whatsoever if you know what you’re doing. Those trees are very young, not very old at all.
hemmy
Omono
The San Diego club has great resources and members to help advance your skills. I’m not sure about bonsai nursery stock. But Bonsai-a-thon in LA this Feb. will be a good place to see several vendors.
Bonsaify Blog and Bonsai Tonight Blog (developmental guides) are great resources to understanding JBP growth.
Bonsaify | Care of Japanese Black Pine bonsai across their life cycle
The confusion surrounding how to care for Japanese Black Pine bonsai likely stems from the reality that these trees require different work to be done at different phases of their life. Eric outlines basic annual care cycles for developing trees, young trees, semi-mature, and mature Japanese...
www.bonsaify.com
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Those pines have grown really well which reflects suitability of your climate. JBP seem to grow well right through to tropical climates. In warmer areas you can sometimes get 2 or 3 growth cycles each year.
Taking off new candles will halt growth temporarily but will usually just cause new buds at the base of those candles. Decandling is used to prevent long internodes rather than to get back buds. Harder pruning is usually required to force back buds but back budding way down the branch can be hit and miss. Much better to cut just above where you want the new shoots to be and then grow out again.
JBP, and most other pines, will reliably bud from any healthy needles so no problem chopping them way back, provided you leave some needles to produce buds. They will always try to survive so chances very good for survival rather than death.
Taking off new candles will halt growth temporarily but will usually just cause new buds at the base of those candles. Decandling is used to prevent long internodes rather than to get back buds. Harder pruning is usually required to force back buds but back budding way down the branch can be hit and miss. Much better to cut just above where you want the new shoots to be and then grow out again.
