Japanse Black Pine Needle Plucking

[Alittleoldman]

Hi All,

It's decandling season for JBPs and as per my understanding, part of the process is needle plucking and reducing down to 8-12 pairs of needles per node to balance out the tree. When counting the pairs of needles, does this include pairs of needles down the nodes? Or is it 8-12 pairs of needles at the tip of the node? If I count down the node, some nodes have upwards of 20 pairs of needles.

 

[Alittleoldman]

Here's a picture for reference.

 

[namnhi]

Show us the tree in question would help.

 

[namnhi]

I would cut back further on some of the branches. You have enough healthy needles from the previous year. You see the neck from last year and previous year grow. The branch will be leggy if you don't cut back futher while you still can

 

[Alittleoldman]

Here's a full picture of the tree.

@namnhi thanks for the reply. That makes sense. It seemed like a lot of needles to pluck to reduce down if I was only decandling this year's growth.

 

[namnhi]

Here's a full picture of the tree.

@namnhi thanks for the reply. That makes sense. It seemed like a lot of needles to pluck to reduce down if I was only decandling this year's growth.

I would definitely cut back to the set of needles closest to the trunk. I see the tree is very leggy.

 

[Alittleoldman]

Sounds good, thanks. Yea it's definitely leggy. I'm hoping for some back budding otherwise I might have to look into grafting which I've never done before.

 

[Paradox]

Hi All,

It's decandling season for JBPs and as per my understanding, part of the process is needle plucking and reducing down to 8-12 pairs of needles per node to balance out the tree. When counting the pairs of needles, does this include pairs of needles down the nodes? Or is it 8-12 pairs of needles at the tip of the node? If I count down the node, some nodes have upwards of 20 pairs of needles.

It means to leave 8-12 pairs on each tip.
If removing that many makes you nervous, you can remove all top and bottom pointing needles below. This will allow for some sun to get into the branches.

New buds will form where there are needles but can also come from nodes along the branches.

At candle cutting time, we thin the needles. We generally remove all 2 and 3 year old needles in the fall so that any latent buds get more sun.

However once the new shoots develop after candle cutting, I would feed the tree well to help promote back budding.

I would be careful of a drastic cut back unless the tree is very vigorous and well fed.

 

[Shibui]

It's decandling season for JBPs and as per my understanding, part of the process is needle plucking and reducing down to 8-12 pairs of needles per node to balance out the tree. When counting the pairs of needles, does this include pairs of needles down the nodes? Or is it 8-12 pairs of needles at the tip of the node? If I count down the node, some nodes have upwards of 20 pairs of needles.

A lot of stuff written about pine pruning assumes the trees are well developed and have been candle trimmed and had needles removed before.
In the early stages things are not quite so clear and it appears the tree in question is right at the start of development and probably never been trimmed before. That's why we have several years' of needle clusters on each branch.
Lots of new pine growers would rush in and pull all the old needles off those branches, just leaving a few pairs at the ends, only to find they now have long, bare branching and a reduced chance of new buds. After all that's what the experts advise. Remember that advice is for trees much further down the path.

My approach is same as @namnhi . To reduce long branches and get shoots closer to the trunk that can then be used to develop dense ramification, prune long branches right back to the lowest needles which should stimulate new buds from those needles and maybe even a few further back on bare sections. Next year those new buds will develop spring candles which can be candle pruned and the few old needles left can be removed after any resulting summer shoots have opened and matured. Old needles are removed at the end of summer when excess new shoots are also removed.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I just asked Adair this question on needles yesterday. His reply below.

You don’t want to pull any needles… Decandle, let the new shoots develop, and pull the old needles in November.

Mine was sort of out of rehabilitation mode. But looks similar in growth on branches. *Before styling.