Japanese White Pine questions on climate and cultivars

[Africanherbman]

Hi,

I am brand new to bonsai so please excuse my ignorance.

I'm very interested in getting a young Japanese White Pine to train as a bonsai. I was looking online for some sources since I couldn't find them at local nurseries, (at least not yet). I can only find them on the Coniferkingdom website, which has a long list of cultivars. Would any variety or cultivar work for bonsai? Are some better for bonsai based on needle length, growth patterns, etc? Are there other sources I should look at?

And finally before I even get one, I live in the San Francisco bay area. I will be able to keep my plants outside, but we have a sort of Mediterranean climate here, not super sunny even in the summer, never gets too hot, never gets too cold, frequent fog. How will this species do in this climate? Would another pine species do better?

Thanks!

 

[0soyoung]

JWP is VERY CHALLENGING!!!

I suggest you start with something like JBP (pinus thunbergii). They are a bit more forgiving, fun because of candle pruning, and they grow fast. They are also often used as the root stock to which most short needled cultivars of pinus parviflora are grafted.

You can get nice seedlings/saplings from a number of places including @cmeg1 who will have some available on ebay this next April, IIRC. His signature (that appears at the end of any of his posts) has the link to his ebay store. Of course you can always PM him via a BNut Conversation (envelope icon, on the right side of the BNut menu bar).

 

[sorce]

Got them Pango Scales!?

Whew! Crazy! Welcome!

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Check with Johnny Uchita at Grove Way Bonsai in Hayward. He usually has some JWP.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Local growers will have information more specific to where you live as to which JWP work well in your area as @Adair M suggested. Do join your local bonsai society, and visit the collection at Merritt Lake in Oakland to see some JWP, and if you can talk to some of the growers who volunteer at Merritt Lake.

I like the cultivar 'Azuma' also known as 'Penta Azuma' for the short straight needles, with good blue-ish color. The cultivars 'Kokonoe' and 'Zuisho' are very popular for bonsai, their needle color is more green than blue. If foliage color is your only motivation, 'Cleary's' probably has the bluest foliage of the JWP, but the needle length of 'Cleary's' is somewhat longer than the ones more commonly used for bonsai.

The cultivars 'Arakawa' and 'Ibo Can' have warty bark, both need to be medium or larger size as bonsai, as their needles are longer. 'Arakawa' has straight needles, 'Ibo Can' the needles twist and are slightly different hue than 'Arakawa'.

'Catherine' has been used as bonsai, nice short needles. For a super dwarf 'Hagoromo', but slow growing miniatures like 'Hagoromo' are difficult to work with because it takes forever for them to grow.

Conifer Kingdom and Kigi Nursery propagate for the "rock garden, conifer collector" not for bonsai, so the grafts tend to be high and not always as good as we'd like for bonsai.

All Plants - Conifers - Pines - Pinus parviflora (Japanese White Pines) - Kigi Nursery

kiginursery.com

Evergreen Gardenworks - propagates with bonsai in mind, if grafted, grafts are nice and low, but they seem to have discontinued propagation of JWP.

Evergreen Gardenworks

Wabi Sabi - is a small nursery, they propagate for both nursery and for bonsai, let David Dewire know you want the tree for bonsai. His inventory varies, email or call about JWP if you don't see one you want.

Wabi Sabi Bonsai

Wabi Sabi Bonsai is a premier Pacific NW bonsai and dwarf conifer nursery enjoying 35 years in business with full hands-on experience in propagating, growing and training high quality, rare plant material for the creation of exceptional outdoor bonsai and outstanding landscapes.

www.wabisabibonsai.com

The vendors above all supply younger material, that will need years of growing and development. For older, more developed bonsai material Johnny Uchita, Boon, and other brick and mortar nursery businesses in California might be a better option.

 

[Adair M]

Local growers will have information more specific to where you live as to which JWP work well in your area as @Adair M suggested. Do join your local bonsai society, and visit the collection at Merritt Lake in Oakland to see some JWP, and if you can talk to some of the growers who volunteer at Merritt Lake.



I like the cultivar 'Azuma' also known as 'Penta Azuma' for the short straight needles, with good blue-ish color. The cultivars 'Kokonoe' and 'Zuisho' are very popular for bonsai, their needle color is more green than blue. If foliage color is your only motivation, 'Cleary's' probably has the bluest foliage of the JWP, but the needle length of 'Cleary's' is somewhat longer than the ones more commonly used for bonsai.

The cultivars 'Arakawa' and 'Ibo Can' have warty bark, both need to be medium or larger size as bonsai, as their needles are longer. 'Arakawa' has straight needles, 'Ibo Can' the needles twist and are slightly different hue than 'Arakawa'.

'Catherine' has been used as bonsai, nice short needles. For a super dwarf 'Hagoromo', but slow growing miniatures like 'Hagoromo' are difficult to work with because it takes forever for them to grow.

Conifer Kingdom and Kigi Nursery propagate for the "rock garden, conifer collector" not for bonsai, so the grafts tend to be high and not always as good as we'd like for bonsai.

All Plants - Conifers - Pines - Pinus parviflora (Japanese White Pines) - Kigi Nursery

kiginursery.com

Evergreen Gardenworks - propagates with bonsai in mind, if grafted, grafts are nice and low, but they seem to have discontinued propagation of JWP.

Evergreen Gardenworks

Wabi Sabi - is a small nursery, they propagate for both nursery and for bonsai, let David Dewire know you want the tree for bonsai. His inventory varies, email or call about JWP if you don't see one you want.

Wabi Sabi Bonsai

Wabi Sabi Bonsai is a premier Pacific NW bonsai and dwarf conifer nursery enjoying 35 years in business with full hands-on experience in propagating, growing and training high quality, rare plant material for the creation of exceptional outdoor bonsai and outstanding landscapes.

www.wabisabibonsai.com

The vendors above all supply younger material, that will need years of growing and development. For older, more developed bonsai material Johnny Uchita, Boon, and other brick and mortar nursery businesses in California might be a better option.

Boon doesnt have any JWP (that I know of) right now. His new location isn’t suitable for JWP, and I have brought all my JWP that I had with him back to my home in Georgia.

The Bay Area has many microclimates. Some areas are better for JWP than others. Even at Boon’s old place in Hayward, JWP didn’t do as well as they do at my home in Georgia! John Kirby noticed something similar with his JWP. It fared better in Connecticut than it did in Hayward.

Brent stopped trying to propagate JWP because they wouldn’t thrive in his environment.

@Africanherbman, you might also check with Jonas. He lives in Alameda. He might have some JWP. I bought one from him that was very blue when I bought it. Within 3 months in my climate, it turn significantly greener!

Yes, it appears that JWP are very much influenced by the local climate.

 

[Africanherbman]

Thanks for the replies guys, really helpful. Yeah, I am going to give Grove Way a visit later this week when they're open. They may know if where I live specifically would be able to support JWP.

 

[Lazylightningny]

Just be aware that JWP take a very long time to form bark- like decades, unlike a JBP which takes considerably less time. This may influence your decision.

 

[Africanherbman]

I am planning on getting a JBP as well. My plan this year is the JBP, the white pine also if it seems I will be able to keep it alive, a trident maple, and possibly start a coast live oak cutting.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I bought some seedlings from https://kaedebonsai-en.com reasonably priced he sold out quick tho

 

[Africanherbman]

Thanks, I ended up with a Japanese maple, planning on getting a JBP and holding off on the white for now. Just wait and make sure I won't kill the ones I have first before I go for the JWP.

 

[brentwood]

I picked up a little JWP from Julian Adams last fall, has young and mature pine to choose from... http://www.adamsbonsai.com/
He'll talk to you for a while, very interesting, knowledgeable guy.
Brent