Japanese red pine 'Jane Kluis'

[Lorax7]

Does anyone else happen to have this variety? The information I've been able to find on the web indicates that it's a hybrid, although there seems to be some question about whether it's a cross between Pinus densiflora and Pinus thunbergii or a cross between Pinus densiflora and Pinus nigra. Different information sources label it as one or the other. Logically, it makes more sense that it would be JRP x JBP since that is the situation that would exist in the native environment in Japan.

The one that I got was labeled as Pinus densiflora x nigra 'Jane Kluis', but since it was from a big box store, not a nursery, and was being sold as a potted Christmas tree, I'm not 100% convinced that labeling is accurate. I kind of think it was probably delivered unintentionally by the grower to Home Depot since it was the only one of its kind there and it was sitting next to a couple of Eastern white pines in the same red nursery cans with the same red bow on top. It seems possible that a miscommunication could be the origin of the Pinus densiflora x nigra designation (i.e. nursery employee is out working in the field and asks their supervisor, "Hey, how should this pine here be labeled?". Supervisor says, "It's a Japanese red pine and black pine hybrid called 'Jane Kluis'". Supervisor meant Pinus densiflora x thunbergii, but employee writes down Pinus densiflora x nigra because it doesn't occur to them than the supervisor meant Japanese black pine.)



If you have one of these hybrids, I'm curious about your experiences with it. Specifically, I'm wondering about some of its characteristics pertaining to development as bonsai:

• Is it a single flush or double flush pine? It seems to me that if it's a JRP x JBP hybrid then it would obviously be double flush. If it's actually JRP x Austrian black pine, it seems like it could go either way depending on how the genetic cross happened.
• Is it as brittle as a non-hybrid JRP or is it more bendy like a JBP? Or is it more like an Austrian black pine (and, if so, how bendy or brittle are those)?

I just bought it this year and haven't had a chance to do any work on it. So, I'm wondering how I should work it when I finally get the chance to do something with it in the spring.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Consider contacting Jonasto get good info instead of opinions.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Pinus × densithunbergii 'Jane Kluis' / Jane Kluis hybrid pine | Conifer Trinomial | American Conifer Society

Pinus × densithunbergii 'Jane Kluis' is a deliberate cross (grex) of Pinus densiflora and Pinus thunbergii. It is a dwarf, globose selection of hybrid pine with st…

conifersociety.org

Lists the original breeder and nursery.
The mentions of nigra are limited to second or third hand information.

 

[0soyoung]

Does anyone else happen to have this variety?

It is double flush, though it must be decandled well before thunbergii which is decandled near the end of May in my climate. Branches get beefy quickly and are then quite rigid, however, they are not as brittle as p. densi branches.

The Tree Thread

Polish born pinus sylvestris. First structural styling done. No detail wire. The one in the foreground is the same tree as bought.

www.bonsainut.com

A progression in pix is in a BNut album.

 

[Lorax7]

Repotted this JRP today. Did a fair amount of root work and gave it a light trim up top just to let a bit more light into the interior to keep branches alive so I’ll have some good options available later on when I reduce the overall size of the canopy.

I’m thinking this will be the front.


Side view:

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Is not grafted? if its grafted is very well done

 

[Lorax7]

Is not grafted? if its grafted is very well done

I don’t think it is grafted. I can’t find any markings to suggest the presence of a graft.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Cool tree . Was not aware that you could produce a hybrid like that . I assume they just cross pollinate the trees . Makes you wonder . Why there has not been more work with JWP . Considering it’s . Interest to the bonsai world . One would think someone . Would be interested in getting on better roots without grafting .

 

[Lorax7]

Cool tree . Was not aware that you could produce a hybrid like that . I assume they just cross pollinate the trees . Makes you wonder . Why there has not been more work with JWP . Considering it’s . Interest to the bonsai world . One would think someone . Would be interested in getting on better roots without grafting .

I’ve never heard of a JWP being hybridized like this, although it seems plausible that it could happen. When I did some reading on the JRP x JBP hybrid, I found mention that this is something that happens naturally in the forests in Japan where both species grow. So, the origin of the named cultivar was probably a case of someone in the U.S. rediscovering by accident something that was already well known across the pond.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

That makes sense . The natural hybrid part . When I re read my post . It was not clear . I realize plants are hybridized. All the time . Just was not aware that it happens in pines . Or was that it is forced by human intervention . Anyway it’s a cool tree . Be very interested in how it behaves . Good luck

 

[Lorax7]

Rest In peace, JRP ‘Jane Kluis’. You had a lot of potential but just didn’t thrive after your first repotting.

 

[Scorpius]

Rest In peace, JRP ‘Jane Kluis’. You had a lot of potential but just didn’t thrive after your first repotting.

Too much root work you think?

 

[Lorax7]

Too much root work you think?

Hard to know for certain, but that seems likely. It stayed green up until mid-June and then went downhill fast. When I dumped the substrate out of the container today, I basically saw no evidence that any young new roots had grown since repotting.

 

[Scorpius]

Hard to know for certain, but that seems likely. It stayed green up until mid-June and then went downhill fast. When I dumped the substrate out of the container today, I basically saw no evidence that any young new roots had grown since repotting.

Sounds like it.
I'd say roots were worked too much.
Substrate might have been kept overly wet too.
Might have been over potted as well.

Sorry for the rambling. The past two years I have been on a learning curve with correctly sizing pots and substrate with roots balls and not overpotting a tree which usually results in the death of my trees.

 

[Lorax7]

Sounds like it.
I'd say roots were worked too much.
Substrate might have been kept overly wet too.
Might have been over potted as well.

Sorry for the rambling. The past two years I have been on a learning curve with correctly sizing pots and substrate with roots balls and not overpotting a tree which usually results in the death of my trees.

It was definitely not kept overly wet. I've been doing bonsai a while. I know how to water trees. It wasn't significantly overpotted either. I think the most likely explanation is either that I reduced the roots too much or that there was already something wrong with the roots when I bought it (purchased from a big box store in December, so who knows what sort of care it got then).

That said, I'm not really looking for a post-mortem discussion here. Was just updating the thread so that anybody following would know the tree's ultimate fate without having to ask for an update.

 

[Scorpius]

It was definitely not kept overly wet. I've been doing bonsai a while. I know how to water trees. It wasn't significantly overpotted either. I think the most likely explanation is either that I reduced the roots too much or that there was already something wrong with the roots when I bought it (purchased from a big box store in December, so who knows what sort of care it got then).

That said, I'm not really looking for a post-mortem discussion here. Was just updating the thread so that anybody following would know the tree's ultimate fate without having to ask for an update.

I'm sorry to have bothered you.

 

[Paradox]

Sorry about your tree. I know it stings to lose one with good potential. I tried one of these years ago that also died. It's a shame because they usually have decent trunks.

Do you think that a more intermediate depth pot might have helped? I know the pot you put it in is a training pot but still rather shallow.

So wondering if something a bit deeper would have been better as a first training pot to give another step in the transition to the eventual bonsai pot?

 

[0soyoung]

I think it was the bare rooting done to get it out of the nursery soil.

In my experience, all the Japanese pines need to be HBR-ed to remove/replace nursery soil.

 

[Lorax7]

Do you think that a more intermediate depth pot might have helped?

Yes, perhaps. That’s something I would do differently next time, not try to get it all the way from nursery can into a shallow training pot in one go. Works ok for younger trees, but perhaps not as well for one that’s older, like this one was. I’d also repot it in April just to be a little more safe on the timing.

 

[Lorax7]

I think it was the bare rooting done to get it out of the nursery soil.

In my experience, all the Japanese pines need to be HBR-ed to remove/replace nursery soil.

I didn’t completely bare root it. There was a part of the rootball that was left untouched.