Is this a bonsai yet in the strictest Meaning??

[MMJNICE]

So I've been developing this windswept Boganvilia tree for the last 4 years from a 3 month old cutting I bought from a local nursery. It came in a pot with 4 or 5 rooted cuttings but I bought the pot for this one cutting you see here. I have since grown and wired every single primary branch and most of the secondary branches into the tree you see now. It has always been close to me because for two or three years it was Entirely grown indoors under my Watchful eye quickly Wiring each branch as it grew. So my question is when can I truly call this a bonsai that I created by myself? 5 years 10 years? Or was it a bonsai when I pot it into a small pot? All Input is noted no matter what your opinion on the subject..I'm interested in the opinions of others people that grow tree's like myself from seed ,,from less then Centimeter thick cuttings like this tree,,, or from nursery stock .. when do you call your tree a real bonsai???? What Parameters do you set for the inclusion of the name bonsai for your Material that you grow. And for viewing pleasure my boggie... I put rooting hormone around the base to try to get a more Radial root base but all it did was thicken the Existing roots more,,,and by Association the roots Around the existing roots began to grow but the effects seem pleasing to me so I guess it worked.. I also potted the tree in a pot I made from Hazelnut colored clay ,,,it was fired under cone 7 for a nice winter Worthy pot. I have a Pottery studio in my basement that I play around and make bonsai pots with for fun.. the two Hobbies kinda go hand in hand... so yea what's you two cents?

 

[leatherback]

Hm.. i think this is a tricky question to ask.

I normally compare what I see in club/regional exhibitions and take that as a standard. If I feel it would be acceptable in a regional show, I would see it as a bonsai. Your tree seems to have a clear intent and organization to the branches and foliage. A decent aged looking trunk and to me this would be a young bonsai.

key criteria here to me are
- Decent aged look
- No obvious man-made scars
- Stands largely wirefree (More with deciduous than some coniferous)

but highly subjective whether something is a bonsai, and very flammable subject.

 

[MMJNICE]

Hm.. i think this is a tricky question to ask.

I normally compare what I see in club/regional exhibitions and take that as a standard. If I feel it would be acceptable in a regional show, I would see it as a bonsai. Your tree seems to have a clear intent and organization to the branches and foliage. A decent aged looking trunk and to me this would be a young bonsai.

key criteria here to me are
- Decent aged look
- No obvious man-made scars
- Stands largely wirefree (More with deciduous than some coniferous)

but highly subjective whether something is a bonsai, and very flammable subject.

Interesting... so to sum up what you said,, "a tree with an aged look, that you would be proud to show in a region show".... I think that makes sense. For this Particular tree I think I would or could use this tree for a local show,,, say for a Cincinnati bonsai Society show but I probably would have a much older looking tree to accompany it just to round it out a little better.. I'm not sure if this tree fits the shohin definition but it's under 9" from the soil line but it's probably twice that in length. For shohin does your definition still stand? What about mame trees, same definition? Like you said there is all kinds of gray areas.. do you ever Scuff at what people call a bonsai? I can't lie I do sometimes,, especially when they Attach a crazy price ticket for Relatively newly down potted nursery stock.

 

[Topdec]

I apologise if I'm doing you a disservice but this seems like an ai created post to garner responses, the plant looks like its been happily growing up naturally then tilted over in a pot and some wire wrapped around which doesn't seem to serve a specific purpose, again I don't wish to offend you if this is actually a genuine post and you've been nurturing this tree for years but that is what it seems to me.

 

[leatherback]

do you ever Scuff at what people call a bonsai?

I try not to. Certainly when it is clear people are just getting started I feel it is unneeded as people just need to grow into the hobby. And in the end, if it makes people happy.. However, sometimes I see things passing by that really have nothing to do with bonsai (coconut with a sprout in it for instance) and there I do call people out.

 

[Srt8madness]

Strictly speaking it's a tree in a pot, so yes Bonsai.

In my personal opinion, a bonsai has some dwarfed characteristics. I.e. thicker trunk for its height, ramification, and leave size reduction. This tree doesn't seem to really have any of those features.

But hey, neither do the bougies I've been working on!

I do see a lot of promise in your tree, and not even long term. Not necessarily as a windswept though.
If you could push the foliage back a bit, and establish a rough triangle shape of the foliage, you'll have a really nice looking bonsai IMO.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Strict definition—> Tree in pot = bonsai

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Gabler]

Strict definition—> Tree in pot = bonsai

Cheers
DSD sends

That depends on how you define "strict definition." I would say the strictest definition is the least inclusive, whereas your very literal definition is perhaps the most inclusive possible definition, and therefore the least strict.

What is the strict definition of strict definition?

 

[Applicative]

seems reasonable to take a common parlance understanding - if this was another medium

- is this music?
- is this sculpture?

in this case it's not really complex - your intention is to create a simulacrum of a tree, in a pot, using a tree as a medium. it's a reasonable definition as to what is discussed on this western forum.

 

[Applicative]

we don't say all trees in pots are bonsai, and how to draw the boundaries of what is and isn't bonsai may be interesting, but seems you certainly hit the mark imho

 

[MMJNICE]

I try not to. Certainly when it is clear people are just getting started I feel it is unneeded as people just need to grow into the hobby. And in the end, if it makes people happy.. However, sometimes I see things passing by that really have nothing to do with bonsai (coconut with a sprout in it for instance) and there I do call people out.

I have to stop myself from sending messages to seller's on Ebay that are asking 800 dollars for something they dug up out their grandparents yard last week with zero training.. I have Politely asked a few probing questions from people that I wasn't interested purchasing their Material just to be a dick, but I leave it at that and forget about the whole thing in two hours..

 

[MMJNICE]

That depends on how you define "strict definition." I would say the strictest definition is the least inclusive, whereas your very literal definition is perhaps the most inclusive possible definition, and therefore the least strict.

What is the strict definition of strict definition?

When I say strict definition I mean the least inclusive but good point.. I think I would classify 90% of my Material pre-bonsai.. but I'm thinking the noted tree I posted as pretty close to a completed bonsai in the Since it looks pretty close to my Intended vision I had for it. Only thing I would like to see from it now is a thicker trunk..That's the reason I over-potted the tree into a oversized pot, welll that,, and because the pot color Matches the bark.

 

[MMJNICE]

Strictly speaking it's a tree in a pot, so yes Bonsai.

In my personal opinion, a bonsai has some dwarfed characteristics. I.e. thicker trunk for its height, ramification, and leave size reduction. This tree doesn't seem to really have any of those features.

But hey, neither do the bougies I've been working on!

I do see a lot of promise in your tree, and not even long term. Not necessarily as a windswept though.
If you could push the foliage back a bit, and establish a rough triangle shape of the foliage, you'll have a really nice looking bonsai IMO.

Interesting Perspective.. the trees leaves from what I can tell working with this species and where the cuttings came from, are about as small as they can get. Each leaf is about an inch or so..with an inch and a half the largest. I would love to Reduce them down even further like a pink pixy boggie but I'm petty happy how small they are. And truly this tree is much better looking in person,, side note I hate saying that but sometimes trees don't photograph as well as they look in real life but it still feels like a cheat saying that. I thought about changing the potting angle and Redesigning it very similar to your Envisioned tree Mainly because it's a lot of work training a windswept tree. Every dam branch has to be wired with movement and only certain branches can be grown because of the Nature of windswept trees. It definitely keeps me on my toes with consistency adding wire and removing wire trimming to prevent Inverse taper etc.

 

[James W.]

In the strictest sense, i.e. what a Japanese master would consider: No, that plant does not qualify as bonsai.
Years ago (someone correct me if I am repeating misinformation) a Japanese master was invited to judge a prominent American show. His statement was something to the effect that there were no bonsai being displayed so it didn't need to be judged.

 

[Michael P]

To be called a bonsai in a meaningful way, a tree needs to be grown using the specialized horticultural techniques developed over centuries and conform to an equally old and recognizable aesthetic, within wide limits. This enables us to distinguish bonsai from nursery trees in pots, potted topiary, and other trees in pots grown for ornamental or agricultural purposes.

By this criteria, the OP's tree is a bonsai.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Is this an appropriate thread to ask how much the pot selection affects whether or not it is a bonsai?

 

[KikurageOtomo]

Is this an appropriate thread to ask how much the pot selection affects whether or not it is a bonsai?

Absolutely, in the same way you wouldn't send a supermodel down the runway in a literal burlap sack. Having a bonsai worth thousands, if not tens of thousands in a pot worth a fraction of a percentage is likely not tasteful.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

In the strictest sense, i.e. what a Japanese master would consider: No, that plant does not qualify as bonsai.
Years ago (someone correct me if I am repeating misinformation) a Japanese master was invited to judge a prominent American show. His statement was something to the effect that there were no bonsai being displayed so it didn't need to be judged.

I think this is an important point. Art is national and/or continental in many cases. Just as with say, dog breeds, there are differences within the breed across oceans, or maybe other geographical boundaries. Maybe our western version of bonsai is not the original Chinese or the later (and most prevalent) Japanese style. But, (not trying to be controversial in any form) that doesn't necessarily make it less artistic or less valuable. (Beauty, of course, is in the eye of the beholder.) Create what is beautiful in your own taste. Im old enough that I finally figured out that I have to do what I believe is right, to bring into the world what I see as beautiful. And if I can share something that brings joy, or wonder, or peace, or any other goodness to another person...?
That's my intention, and one reason why I bonsai.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Absolutely, in the same way you wouldn't send a supermodel down the runway in a literal burlap sack. Having a bonsai worth thousands, if not tens of thousands in a pot worth a fraction of a percentage is likely not tasteful.

So, concrete is not acceptable, I assume. I want to use cheaper materials until I know enough to create something valuable and worthy of passing on to future generations.

 

[MMJNICE]

To be called a bonsai in a meaningful way, a tree needs to be grown using the specialized horticultural techniques developed over centuries and conform to an equally old and recognizable aesthetic, within wide limits. This enables us to distinguish bonsai from nursery trees in pots, potted topiary, and other trees in pots grown for ornamental or agricultural purposes.

By this criteria, the OP's tree is a bonsai.

I think your definition is spot on .. I'll have to keep that in mind. Yes the limits are wide but it makes sense to me.