Is there a bonsai in this? - Blue Atlas Cedar

[Manbris]

Hi!

Tempting to get this but not sure if it is a good idea. Please advice.

 

[penumbra]

Sure there is a bonsai in there, but its a long time coming. Personally, I would pass.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm from the school of "any weak branch can become a strong branch".
But this seems to be pushing that argument. I don't see a tree in there, nor the viable branching to make a tree out of it in a lifetime. The lower branches seem to be on their way out.
Personally I would pass up on this and keep looking. They are out there, but this isn't it.

When shopping, I try to limit myself by telling myself: If I have to ask others whether or not it's worth it, it's not worth it. And if I don't see more than one future design options, then it's a hard pass.
Also, this is going to piss people off: I don't consider cascade a viable design option while shopping.

 

[Manbris]

Sure there is a bonsai in there, but its a long time coming. Personally, I would pass.

Thanks! Could you please elaborate a bit more? Would like to learn.

 

[Manbris]

I'm from the school of "any weak branch can become a strong branch".
But this seems to be pushing that argument. I don't see a tree in there, nor the viable branching to make a tree out of it in a lifetime. The lower branches seem to be on their way out.
Personally I would pass up on this and keep looking. They are out there, but this isn't it.

When shopping, I try to limit myself by telling myself: If I have to ask others whether or not it's worth it, it's not worth it. And if I don't see more than one future design options, then it's a hard pass.
Also, this is going to piss people off: I don't consider cascade a viable design option while shopping.

Really insightful comment. Thanks.

Why cascade won't be a viable design from these nursery stocks? What styles would you consider instead? tips for the future.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Why cascade won't be a viable design from these nursery stocks?

Good question! I think most plants with a shrubby growth habit tend to naturally form cooks and bends that naturally cascade. So I would be able to buy any random juniper or spruce or larch or mugo pine and just hack back to the first branch and flip it into a cascade. Before I know it, my backyard would be full of badly executed cascades that go nowhere.

 

[Paradox]

Agree with the others above

Chopping a ram rod straight trunk to a branch coming off said trunk at a 90 degree angle then bending the branch down makes a very bad looking cascade. It looks contrived and unnatural and it is

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Pass on it. You’d want to cut off the low branch and then you have nothing on the lower portion of the trunk. These are not likely to backbud. Find a tree with a good graft union and lots of good lower branching to work with or you'll regret it down the road. It took me several years visiting local nurseries to find one worth buying—nasty grafts and no low foliage is not something landscape growers worry about.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Lot of work. I'd pass.

 

[JackHammer]

Agree with the others above

Chopping a ram rod straight trunk to a branch coming off said trunk at a 90 degree angle then bending the branch down makes a very bad looking cascade. It looks contrived and unnatural and it is

Not necessarily advocating for a cascade but what is the issue with a trunk chop? Isn't that the entire point of a trunk chop? So it tapers to the first branch, I would then look to encourage growth around the second node(ish), assuming you could get a bud, then that would become the continuation of the trunk. It basically becomes clip and grow. It would take time though.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Not necessarily advocating for a cascade but what is the issue with a trunk chop? Isn't that the entire point of a trunk chop? So it tapers to the first branch, I would then look to encourage growth around the second node(ish), assuming you could get a bud, then that would become the continuation of the trunk. It basically becomes clip and grow. It would take time though.

Trunk chops are fine, but if the roots are established and positioned on a horizontal pot, the straight trunk with zero features will be an eye sore for ever. Tilting it, will cause the rootbase to look funky and uneven, and it will not change the telephone pole trunk.

I've tried with this size material to get some movement in there, but it takes three to four years of literal scaffolding of wood and iron around the trunk to get that to succeed.

That is only possible if there is sufficient plant to cut back to. In the case of this cedar, the lowest branches look weak and the growth that does look OK is waaay down the branch. Compacting that design will be a luck based strategy: hoping for buds to emerge and get strong.
All things considered, that's a 20 year plan. Which is fine if it's worth it. But one can grow a tree from seed in that time.

 

[JackHammer]

Trunk chops are fine, but if the roots are established and positioned on a horizontal pot, the straight trunk with zero features will be an eye sore for ever. Tilting it, will cause the rootbase to look funky and uneven, and it will not change the telephone pole trunk.

I've tried with this size material to get some movement in there, but it takes three to four years of literal scaffolding of wood and iron around the trunk to get that to succeed.

That is only possible if there is sufficient plant to cut back to. In the case of this cedar, the lowest branches look weak and the growth that does look OK is waaay down the branch. Compacting that design will be a luck based strategy: hoping for buds to emerge and get strong.
All things considered, that's a 20 year plan. Which is fine if it's worth it. But one can grow a tree from seed in that time.

I agree with this. Thanks. I probably have a number of 20 year trees. You were talking about your scaffolding - I attached a brick to a JBP a few years ago. It was swinging in the wind all winter, but not nearly heavy enough to get the bend I was hoping for.

 

[Paradox]

Not necessarily advocating for a cascade but what is the issue with a trunk chop? Isn't that the entire point of a trunk chop? So it tapers to the first branch, I would then look to encourage growth around the second node(ish), assuming you could get a bud, then that would become the continuation of the trunk. It basically becomes clip and grow. It would take time though.

I'm not advocating against a trunk chop.
It's a tool we use in bonsai to develop trees. My point is exactly as I stated. A lot of new people have attempted to make cascades out of trees with ram rod straight trunks by chopping back to a branch coming straight off the trunk. It just ends up looking like an upside down capital "L". It doesn't look natural and never will.