Is ROR popular?

[James W.]

When I do a search for root over rock I find get quite a few "how to" hits and a good number of people starting one. I find very few examples of finished trees, especially species other than trident maples or ficus. And start to finish progressions are not to be found.
Is this because no one likes them? or because they are difficult and so time consuming they are not done often or never finished? or because lots of people try it and they all turn out ugly?

 

[VAFisher]

I can't answer your questions but here is some inspiration with acer rubrum:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/root-over-ruin.1564/

I started a root over rock water elm last year that seems to be progressing pretty well. I've not seen anyone else use that species before but I'm sure it has been done.

 

[Dav4]

They're popular, sure, at least good ones are. That's the rub. Unlike other styles, the likelyhood of success of ROR is decided pretty early on when the stone is chosen and the roots are placed and attached to the stone. Poor root placement is very difficult to fix once the tree has grown for a year or two, and really impacts the image negatively.

 

[hemmy]

trident maples or ficus

I love them! Assuming the right stone and tree. (Now apologies while I geek on on KS geology). My observation on the stone is that it takes some dimension, angles, hardness, and consolidation (igneous or metamorphic, not most sedimentary rocks or river rounded cobbles). When you live on a volcanic arc like Japan those rocks are easier to find.

That said, you do have some small igneous outcrops near you in SE and SW KS. But I also think you have potential with the rocks from the thicker chert deposits (think flint, Flint Hills). Most occurences are nodular or thin beds, but there are thicker units (especially in MO and AR). Chert is composed of silica, so it wouldn’t have the calcium carbonate (alkalinity) issues of limestone. Except that in most places it also occurs in limestones. But rough fractured limestone may also make an interesting composition and I have seen plenty of native or invasive trees growing atop limestone beds. I’ve also seen some awesome irregular, jagged, hematite (iron oxide) cemented sandstone from the Dakota Formation in North Central KS.

One last thing to note is that both those species listed above are very vigorous growers that fuse roots, which certainly helps with the root binding to the stone.

 

[James W.]

I love them! Assuming the right stone and tree. (Now apologies while I geek on on KS geology). My observation on the stone is that it takes some dimension, angles, hardness, and consolidation (igneous or metamorphic, not most sedimentary rocks or river rounded cobbles). When you live on a volcanic arc like Japan those rocks are easier to find.

That said, you do have some small igneous outcrops near you in SE and SW KS. But I also think you have potential with the rocks from the thicker chert deposits (think flint, Flint Hills). Most occurences are nodular or thin beds, but there are thicker units (especially in MO and AR). Chert is composed of silica, so it wouldn’t have the calcium carbonate (alkalinity) issues of limestone. Except that in most places it also occurs in limestones. But rough fractured limestone may also make an interesting composition and I have seen plenty of native or invasive trees growing atop limestone beds. I’ve also seen some awesome irregular, jagged, hematite (iron oxide) cemented sandstone from the Dakota Formation in North Central KS.

One last thing to note is that both those species listed above are very vigorous growers that fuse roots, which certainly helps with the root binding to the stone.

I have been avoiding limestone for the most part. Whenever we go on vacation anywhere I always bring back a bunch of rocks so I have a selection of chert, granite, etc. Interestingly, most of the rock in the flint hills is limestone, the flint is mostly gravel.

 

[hemmy]

Interestingly, most of the rock in the flint hills is limestone, the flint is mostly gravel.

True, in the formation outcrop it is mostly nodules and boring blue-grey colors. There are thicker beds with better colors in MO and AR, like the AR Novaculite.

How about an Eastern Red Cedar or Tamarisk on a chunk of salt from the gift stores at the Hutchison salt caverns! Lol!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I started a few, and here is a progression thread from the day I set them over the rock.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/ror-trident-project.5152/

 

[just.wing.it]

I think I might try ROR next year.

 

[James W.]

I started a few, and here is a progression thread from the day I set them over the rock.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/ror-trident-project.5152/

You are one of very few and I thank you for sharing your experience. I have read through that thread several times, and have even tried starting some tridents from seed hoping to emulate your success.

 

[It's Kev]

I like the ones where the tree and the rock are the same size, or where the rock is bigger. Those giant trees where the roots enveloped a pebble just don’t do it for me.

 

[sorce]

You almost MUST start from sapling or younger.
That's a long time.

A long time to develop a key focal point...basically blind.

The Future Vision Goggles needed have an expensive prescription. Paid with forethought.

The odds are simply stacked against us.

6 years from cutting.


Sorce

 

[James W.]

So root over rock is a long term crap shoot, though with skill and forethought it is less so. A trident or ficus will take 6+ years to be presentable, but that doesn't seem extreme. Obviously other species are slower and any species that does not tolerate bare rooting will be a challenge.
Facing these challenges do most bonsai artists simply not try ROR, do they try and fail and move on, or do they hide a whole bunch of uglies? (And yes, I know there are some nice examples and a few masterpieces out there.) Or maybe a lot of people do one, been there and done that, and it wasn't exciting enough to do it again?
Or it could be that I simply do not have enough exposure to know how many are being kept.

How many of YOU guys have tried one or a dozen and where is it today?

 

[sorce]

hide a whole bunch of uglies

I think many end up hiding a bunch of pretty!

They talk about hiding good parts of rock.

And the growth has a tendency to....grow!

I think that is the difficulty.

Lines...lines are important.

Sorce

 

[VAFisher]

Here's the one I'm working on. I struck the cutting in 2016 and planted it on a rock in 2017 that I hauled down the mountain from my favorite fishin' hole. I haven't taken a pic this year but it has thickened pretty well and seems to be attaching to the rock. I'll try to take a new picture of it tonight. This is the first one I've tried, so I can't say what the future holds, but my plan is to continue to develop and document it until it becomes awesome. We'll see.

 

[Dav4]

I've started several over the last few years... a falling oak tree killed one with a trident and smashed the ibigawa rock a JBP was planted on... sigh. I started another one this winter... https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/w...-mix-a-tree-a-cool-rock-and-some-twine.32287/ ... good stone and good grower so far. First time I used hemp twine... and the last... it rotted in 6 weeks, though that was hopefully long enough. We'll know more next year.

 

[It's Kev]

How many of YOU guys have tried one or a dozen and where is it today?

I’ve got 2 ficus attempts. The first I did wrong, I grew long roots in water and draped them over the stone which I put in a shallow tray.
The second I’m doing correctly wrapped some roots around a stone, and planted the whole lot.
I’m keeping both to check out long term differences between taking shortcuts and doing it the right way

 

[AlainK]

I tried it long ago with a J. maple:

In 2003:


November 2017:


And yes, it takes along time, but with proper cultivation, I should have reduced the time spent to half as many years for the same result.

Cotoneaster is pretty easy.
June 2008:



It was pretty much established in 2012:



Today:

 

[James W.]

So it appears that the biggest factor is a lack of interest, perhaps aggravated by a perception of difficulty.
I have a several started and more planned. I figured that I might as well try to put pretty much everything that I am starting young enough onto a rock. If it looks bad, I can always ditch the rock and still have something to work with.
Maybe in a couple of years I can start posting some of them to let everyone know what mistakes to avoid.

 

[BE.REAL]

I love the rock plantings(meaning various styles:RoR, slabs plantings, plant in or on a rock, and many other variations). I also prefer more natural like styling for trees.
With that said, I have been experiementing with making my own rock formations and containers. Some are drilling/carving found rocks and others are cementing together rocks or cement all together which gets weathered and painted.500
but to get to another big aspect of my appreciation for rock plantings, is that I don't always have access to larger trees, IE 500year old junipers, and the rock plantings are usually made with younger material but with adding to the rock, gives a feel of a larger tree. IMO, it makes me feel as though I have a ancient larger tree.
of course this is all hinged on a successful creation. ha

 

[KillerButts]

My next RoR planned for March 30th weather permitting. I figure 6~7 months should be enough for a foothold. Then take it in buried for the winter. Assess and maybe repeat one more year. Autumn blaze.