Is my Black Pine Bonsai dying ?

[stevenpollock]

Hi, I'm still a learner with lots more to learn .

I bought this bonsai over a year ago. It was very healthy and thrived all summer. When winter came I left the tree alone and was told I didn't have to do anything until spring. I live on the west coast Vancouver. The tree lives on a window sill with south exposure. The winter was longer than usual and we had little snow. Spring has also arrived late.

The tree changed colour from rich dark green to an almost olive green. Now the needles are looking more yellowish. Still hints of green and the base. I have read lost of info but having a hard time figuring it out. I'm thinking the tree was not feed enough or got hurt by the winter. I was always careful to not overwater.

Here's a picture of it.
I'm wondering if I should let the buds grow into candles (if it will even grow) and see if life comes back. If it shows new life I will have a "leggy" looking tree with lots of dead foliage. Any ideas on how I should approach this.

Many thank Steven

 

[MichaelS]

Dead. Don't know what caused it (too dry, too wet, too cold, too hot) but it wasn't lack of feeding.
Get another one and try again.

 

[petegreg]

If it was outside in your climate, probably freeze damage. I was told to put mine in a cold room once temps go below -4℃ and they are just fine. They spent few nights and then long three weeks indoors... But I forget my JWP was on JBP roots and it looks like yours.
Give it plenty of Sun, do not overwater and watch if the buds start moving. First survival and health then dealing with it's leggy.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

I agree...try again!

I totally commend you for windowsill growing!

Your problem may be similar to mine...
I can't keep anything alive that isn't dug locally.....

Here's a couple good threads with a couple of my rants in them on it.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/holding-out-repotting-2017.26653/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/local-species-awareness-program.20231/

Keep it windowsill....

Keep it gangster!

Sorce

 

[Dav4]

I suspect JBP can do well in your climate if they're sited appropriately. They'd want as much sun as you could give them in the spring, summer, and fall. In the winter, they need to be out of the sun and wind, particularly when the root ball is frozen. I suspect leaving it on a southerly facing window sill probably meant the tree would be subjected to many freeze/thaw cycles through out the winter. Ideally, your next tree will be on the ground somewhere with mulch around the roots.

 

[Paradox]

Here is the main reason the tree died:

The tree lives on a window sill with south exposure.

JBP are not inside trees. They need to be outside. If you can't provide it with a place outside, you won't be able to keep them alive. The only time my JBP are "inside" is in a cold frame during the winter when they are dormant and needs to stay cold.

 

[stevenpollock]

Here is the main reason the tree died:



JBP are not inside trees. They need to be outside. If you can't provide it with a place outside, you won't be able to keep them alive. The only time my JBP are "inside" is in a cold frame during the winter when they are dormant and needs to stay cold.

Hi Paradox... it's on the exterior ledge (outside) exposed to all the elements. I have 2 other Bonsai's that are doing very well beside this one. Sounds like from most comments it's toast.

 

[stevenpollock]

Welcome to Crazy!

I agree...try again!

I totally commend you for windowsill growing!

Your problem may be similar to mine...
I can't keep anything alive that isn't dug locally.....

Here's a couple good threads with a couple of my rants in them on it.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/holding-out-repotting-2017.26653/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/local-species-awareness-program.20231/

Keep it windowsill....

Keep it gangster!

Sorce

Thanks Source... I now have 5 Bonsais on window ledges and love seeing them up there when walking home from street level...lol. Sucks as I really like the black pine one. Our winters here are usually mild.

 

[stevenpollock]

I suspect JBP can do well in your climate if they're sited appropriately. They'd want as much sun as you could give them in the spring, summer, and fall. In the winter, they need to be out of the sun and wind, particularly when the root ball is frozen. I suspect leaving it on a southerly facing window sill probably meant the tree would be subjected to many freeze/thaw cycles through out the winter. Ideally, your next tree will be on the ground somewhere with mulch around the roots.

Thank you for your response. Rather than chuck it out I was wondering if I should leave it outside for the month of April. If there is any action on the buds turning into candles maybe just maybe something can become of it ?. At worst I will learn the full cycle of death

 

[stevenpollock]

If it was outside in your climate, probably freeze damage. I was told to put mine in a cold room once temps go below -4℃ and they are just fine. They spent few nights and then long three weeks indoors... But I forget my JWP was on JBP roots and it looks like yours.
Give it plenty of Sun, do not overwater and watch if the buds start moving. First survival and health then dealing with it's leggy.

Thanks Peter. I'll do just that. Hold tight and hope. If it shows any life I can then seek what to do. Many thanks.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Can you share with us the specific schedule of your care (just so we can help you out with suggestions)? From the photos, the tree appears dead. But I am confused by its appearance. If you look closely at the stage of annual development, you will see a lot of secondary buds that are about to break into candles, as well as some secondary candles that have just opened and died. This looks like a tree frozen in time during the late summer. Did you candle prune it last year? If I had to guess, it died last Fall and just slowly dried out over the winter. I am 98% sure it is dead, and I have never seen a JBP push buds when the needles are all dead, but the true indicator is the tree - have you seen ANY movement in those buds in the last month? (expanding/elongating?)

This will sound a little strange since I normally would never say this about JBP, but an outside windowsill might be one location where your trees might need a little protection from the elements - particularly the desiccating effects of wind and sun. With an open bonsai soil mix and planted in a shallow bonsai pot, sitting out on a windowsill in the wind and sun your soil could easily dry out in a couple of hours if you aren't careful.

 

[CWTurner]

While I like the Yin and Yang of indoor and outdoor trees on the same windowsill, the outdoor windowsill is a difficult winter environment, especially as @Bonsai Nut says, with that southern exposure.
Don't toss it. You might be surprised.
CW

 

[LanceMac10]

Sucks. Live and learn. Well...you lived. I've got JBP and JWP overwintered for four or five years in my climate that might have a couple freeze thaw cycles but they seem to be able to handle it. I only winter them on my porch on shelves, not even mulched or any thing. Poly frames instead of windows, yeah, looks gypsy, I could care less. If you don't have access to that kind of thing, they probably won't make it thru winter. Trust me, my trees have frozen pretty good, but not exposed to drying winds is the key, perhaps? Get another Pine of a species a bit more local to your environment and give it another go!



Going thru the "Romeo" mix......this came up right when I clicked this thread.....I thought of irony, so here it is...

 

[Eric Group]

Dead, agree- TRY AGAIN!!

The candles likely will not open, but no harm in holding on just in case... I have seen JBP affected by Needle cast or highly stressed that grew from the tips after turning this color, so it is "possible"...

As to why, it is impossible generally to definitively say what exactly caused the death but as a few others suggested, probably the extreme cold in your area. From what I know of JBP, they are "coastal trees" in Japan, subjected to more mild winters because of that... while they can susvive a full dormancy they are not a tree like a JM, Amur Maple, or Quince or Spruce... that really NEED that extended cold and they cannot tolerate extended periods of dramatic cold... As Dave said- at the least they need mulch protection, in your climate I would go farther and recommend moving to an unheated shed or garage! Maybe even supplement with heat to keep it above about 20 degree F! I am sure some others- @Adair M perhaps- could speak to more specific cold tolerances for these trees but exact numbers vary depending on the type of soil, size of the pot, whether it is in the ground or not.... Glad this isn't your only tree, sometimes it takes a few failures to determine what trees are right for you and how best to care for certain varieties in your area!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If your tree is alive anywhere, it will be in the strongest buds. If your buds are dry or are falling off the tree, the tree is absolutely 100% dead. If the buds are still green and are showing signs of expansion, there is still a chance that the needles were all just wind/temp burnt. I'm not optimistic, but you never know.

 

[stevenpollock]

Sucks. Live and learn. Well...you lived. I've got JBP and JWP overwintered for four or five years in my climate that might have a couple freeze thaw cycles but they seem to be able to handle it. I only winter them on my porch on shelves, not even mulched or any thing. Poly frames instead of windows, yeah, looks gypsy, I could care less. If you don't have access to that kind of thing, they probably won't make it thru winter. Trust me, my trees have frozen pretty good, but not exposed to drying winds is the key, perhaps? Get another Pine of a species a bit more local to your environment and give it another go!



Going thru the "Romeo" mix......this came up right when I clicked this thread.....I thought of irony, so here it is...

hahaha... that was perfect response. I spent many hours reading and hoping. I could write a poem. I must say I think you made a very accurate point. My friend who is an avid Bonsai collector bought a black pine same day I did. his is alive and well on a condo patio in Vancouver. The only difference is that his patio had glass wind screens. My BJP was completely exposed to winds and sun as well as a slight overhang above protecting from seasonal rain. I think the wind dried the little guy out. Thanks for the video.

 

[stevenpollock]

If your tree is alive anywhere, it will be in the strongest buds. If your buds are dry or are falling off the tree, the tree is absolutely 100% dead. If the buds are still green and are showing signs of expansion, there is still a chance that the needles were all just wind/temp burnt. I'm not optimistic, but you never know.

I'm thinking it is wind/burn. The Vancouver Coast winters are mild and rarely go below 0. I'll keep an eye on the buds throughout April. This Bonsai is happy but it's still in a deeper pot.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

View attachment 140205
I'm thinking it is wind/burn. The Vancouver Coast winters are mild and rarely go below 0. I'll keep an eye on the buds throughout April. This Bonsai is happy but it's still in a deeper pot.

It's not just a deeper pot - it's black plastic with a tall lip. Keeps the roots 100% protected from wind, and nice and warm in the sun. Your JBP bonsai pot is unglazed porous clay. Normally that is a good thing (to keep the roots from being overwet) but dry wind is a killer of tree roots. When the Santa Ana winds are blowing here in Southern California, I can lay a pair of wet Levis blue jeans on a piece of patio furniture in the sun, and those jeans will dry faster than I can dry them in my gas-fired clothes drier

 

[LanceMac10]

hahaha... that was perfect response. I spent many hours reading and hoping. I could write a poem. I must say I think you made a very accurate point. My friend who is an avid Bonsai collector bought a black pine same day I did. his is alive and well on a condo patio in Vancouver. The only difference is that his patio had glass wind screens. My BJP was completely exposed to winds and sun as well as a slight overhang above protecting from seasonal rain. I think the wind dried the little guy out. Thanks for the video.

Had to comment because, well, I'm far from an expert, so I'm pretty familiar with this "color" of JBP!!!

 

[LanceMac10]

It ain't all failures...


Still working on it. Gotta catch some sack and top off that smaller trunk, etc.....