Is cheap fall nursery stock a good idea?

[Music4cash]

So as we're getting into fall I'm starting to see a lot of big discounts at the box store nurseries. The lowes near me has some nice looking crab apples cheap. I was thinking about picking one up. Nice thick trunks but quite tall. Is there any reason I will later regret buying one of these? I guess the plan would be get it through the winter and trunk chop it in the spring.

 

[M. Frary]

Those are all grafted trees.
Meaning if you want the tree on the tag for bonsai there will be an air layer in your future.
If the graft is tall you can also grow the root stick and see what you get.

 

[Music4cash]

So the potential for 2 trees for like $20? Sounds like a plan to me... thanks for the help

 

[_#1_]

Yeah all of them are grafted. That's how them box store rolls. I think the rootstock is either a regular apple or pear. I got a couple last years too cause it was around 6 each. This one I chopped at the graft union last year when i got it home and sealed it with wood glue. I didn't mess with the roots the following spring though. Not sure if that;s a good or bad decision.

And watch out for suckers! Those are VERY prolific. I'm hoping to get a bud higher up next year so I can lop off all these side one. Lost track of these this time around.

 

[Hartinez]

I’d say yes. But a cautious yes. A price tag of $10 for a $20 or $40 tree may be enticing but it’s not always worth your time. Just be EXTREMELY PICKY and don’t buy a bunch. A bunch of cheap trees may end up just being cheap trees in the long run. With that said, I still buy certain clearance shrubs if they fit the bill and have lots of potential, but not near as much as I used to. As some of the senior members on this sight will tell you @Adair M and others, buying prestock made for Bonsai or collecting your own trees has the potential for less long term frustration and better results and true Bonsai experience/practice. You may spend a ton of time trying to polish a turd and well, we know how that goes. ??‍

Side note... 100% my humble opinion. Do you, and enjoy the art!!

 

[Potawatomi13]

Also "IF" wanting to cut off tree for air layer or other is trunk moving/interesting or straight/boring? Cheap not always good bargain.

 

[bonsaidave]

Some places have good summer sales to get rid of seasonal stock too.
In late winter Home Depot gets stock in. Sometimes they have been neglected by the grower and are pretty cool. I have a couple ilex bushes I picked up for $15 with 3-4 inch trunks.

You never know what you will find any time of the year.

 

[Music4cash]

Thanks for all the great advice...it seems the general consensus is...box store trees are grafted, and they are a good deal if they have a nice trunk, but otherwise are more work than a yamadori or tree grown for bonsai

 

[Silentrunning]

Crabapple trees can also make a great addition to your yard. They flower profusely in the spring and can be pruned to have a very pleasing shape.

 

[Music4cash]

Crabapple trees can also make a great addition to your yard. They flower profusely in the spring and can be pruned to have a very pleasing shape.

I wish I had a yard... part of my attraction to bonsai is that I only have a small stone patio...I got interested a couple years ago, I bought a boxwood and read about how important the trunk is so I left it to grow for two years and kind of forgot about the whole thing...but now that the trunk is good on that boxwood I got interested again. I'm at 5 bonsai in various stages right now...my girlfriend is asking me how many I'm going to need total...I think I can get away with one or two more...

 

[Hartinez]

I wish I had a yard... part of my attraction to bonsai is that I only have a small stone patio...I got interested a couple years ago, I bought a boxwood and read about how important the trunk is so I left it to grow for two years and kind of forgot about the whole thing...but now that the trunk is good on that boxwood I got interested again. I'm at 5 bonsai in various stages right now...my girlfriend is asking me how many I'm going to need total...I think I can get away with one or two more...

If one or two more is your limit, all the more reason to invest a few bucks into some nice material, or get a permit and go for a hike and collect something special!

 

[Music4cash]

If one or two more is your limit, all the more reason to invest a few bucks into some nice material, or get a permit and go for a hike and collect something special!

That's a good point... I've been focusing on the fact that due to inexperience I'm pretty likely to kill just about anything... once I get something that lives I'll be willing to work on something special. Right now I'm 90% sure that I've killed 2 of my trees, they just haven't fished dying yet...I like that about bonsai though... the whole thing is in slow motion, you kill a tree and it takes like a month to find that out... you do the right things and it takes years to see the results...

 

[coltranem]

Thanks for all the great advice...it seems the general consensus is...box store trees are grafted, and they are a good deal if they have a nice trunk, but otherwise are more work than a yamadori or tree grown for bonsai

I think this is a bit of an over simplification of what you were told. Box store Maples are grafted because they sell maples for landscapes. I think the take away is be very selective with box bargains. There is good stuff out there but you need to search. I have some cheap stuff I bought to experiment on but I still tried to be selective. Being selective is a skill you want to learn in general. So just browsing box store bargains can give you some practice down selecting.

 

[Johnathan]

Just depends on what you do with that box store bargain. Check this thread out!

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/splitting-tree-and-severe-bending.18915/

 

[Music4cash]

I think this is a bit of an over simplification of what you were told. Box store Maples are grafted because they sell maples for landscapes. I think the take away is be very selective with box bargains. There is good stuff out there but you need to search. I have some cheap stuff I bought to experiment on but I still tried to be selective. Being selective is a skill you want to learn in general. So just browsing box store bargains can give you some practice down selecting.

I think you are absolutely right... the biggest problem I have right now is I can't see potential. I'm starting to be able to see different ways I could style a tree but I haven't developed enough to be able to imagine a tree years out...

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think you are absolutely right... the biggest problem I have right now is I can't see potential. I'm starting to be able to see different ways I could style a tree but I haven't developed enough to be able to imagine a tree years out...

Everything gets fatter with age, and things in plants tend to elongate. If you're having trouble with envisioning future-planning in trees, I suggest you get some herbacious plants, maybe some annuals with a high growth speed. Watching them grow and respond to techniques helps a lot. If there are trees in the neighborhood with no owner, snap a twig or two in spring and watch how it responds in the time after that. Clip off some buds too! Maybe go for a walk after a good storm and make mental notes of branches that broke off, to see how those trees respond to it.
It's the best way to get the hang of how the auxin-cytokinin ratios influence each other and how plants respond to losing limbs. There are some general things that apply to all plants, and understanding how they work could help a great deal.
It took me a few years of landscaping and working as a gardener to get the hang of tree management.

Watching the Bonsai Mirai nursery stock series on youtube could help as well on selecting good stock. It's very basic, but there are some good ground rules laid down in those videos.

 

[coltranem]

If I look at the cheap box store material I bought last year I would probably have not bought it this year. I am still putting it to good use but in addition it helped me to learn to be more selective.

 

[Music4cash]

Everything gets fatter with age, and things in plants tend to elongate. If you're having trouble with envisioning future-planning in trees, I suggest you get some herbacious plants, maybe some annuals with a high growth speed. Watching them grow and respond to techniques helps a lot. If there are trees in the neighborhood with no owner, snap a twig or two in spring and watch how it responds in the time after that. Clip off some buds too! Maybe go for a walk after a good storm and make mental notes of branches that broke off, to see how those trees respond to it.
It's the best way to get the hang of how the auxin-cytokinin ratios influence each other and how plants respond to losing limbs. There are some general things that apply to all plants, and understanding how they work could help a great deal.
It took me a few years of landscaping and working as a gardener to get the hang of tree management.

Watching the Bonsai Mirai nursery stock series on youtube could help as well on selecting good stock. It's very basic, but there are some good ground rules laid down in those videos.

Working with annuals sounds like a great idea! They grow fast and indoors... any species you recommend for short lived bonsai?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Working with annuals sounds like a great idea! They grow fast and indoors... any species you recommend for short lived bonsai?

Pepper plants are pretty nice, they can be defoliated, trimmed, they branch, and they're cheap. They can also be kept indoors during winter and restarted in spring. Watch out for fungal issues though.
Cannabis is, in a sense, even better. But there's local laws in place that I don't know about. So don't do that unless you're absolutely sure you're allowed to. They air layer, they ground layer, they branch, they reduce in size, they take wiring very well but they don't backbud.
Rosemary is becoming popular as a bonsai/funsai species, they usually do pretty well and they can teach you about deadwood and how to handle root-sensitive plants.
Sage can be used as well, for learning about plants, but they take time to form wood (if they do it at all). Not a bad learning subject, but I don't know of any good uses of the stuff. I never use it in the kitchen, so where the others still have some value, sage has none.
Laurel is cheap, and it backbuds very easy. It's not very responsive to pruning, so getting them to do something you want is quite the challenge. If you fail, you can make good stew.

If you want to learn fast, and cheap, take a look at some of those. Herbs that form wood (other than the ones above) are great subjects for getting to know the basics.

 

[shinmai]

I saw an interview in which Kimura said that the artist must love the bonsai in the way that a mother would love a mute child. He could also have added that trees are like children who can't be left home by themselves. From that perspective, I have 'children' that I would not have adopted, had I known then what I do now. Especially if you are limited to seven or so, make sure you pick ones you want to spend the next twenty or so years with.