In-ground branch trimming of Trident Maple question/timing?

[MGTT]

I’ve an inground (3-4 year old) Trident that has had a LOT of lower trunk branch growth this year. Part of this was planned to try and eliminate a reverse taper just above the nebari.
But, as I’m now following the advice on trunk chopping/major branch trimming earlier in the development to avoid major chops, should I trim these lower branches now or in the fall, or next spring?
I realize the picture makes this look like a bush, but that’s kind of the reality at the moment - the lower branches are growing in contact with the ground.

The main reason I ask is that there’s so much growth, I can’t see the trunk clearly. Do I wait for leaf drop, or start in it now?

This is obviously a pre-bonsai, but I’m aiming for something in the 20” / 0.5meter range.

 

[Shibui]

Not possible to give meaningful advice on something we can't see.
Given you grew these lower branches to fix reverse taper why not let them do the job?
You can follow the branches back down to find out where they come from. If there are several growing close together I would eliminate some but leave a couple to continue the thickening and to help heal the cuts caused by removing any branches this time.

 

[WavyGaby]

When is your first average fall frost? I suspect early October so you probably don't have time for a hair cut to be worth it as any new growth will die prematurely and weaken the tree. Wait until completely dormant and then maybe give it a hedge prune to allow light to the lower branches that you might cut back to next year.

 

[MGTT]

Thanks for the advice.

I‘ll get in there and address some of the multiple branches close together, which shouldn’t mean too much trimming.
Then, post leaf drop, I’ll identify and mark branches for trimming next spring.

 

[MGTT]

I trimmed a few of the low branches (‘multiple’ branches from one location, and a couple that were causing inverse taper a little higher up).
I left the lowest branch to continue to try and address the inverse taper right at the soil line (versus ground layering - although, that may be required regardless).
Although still difficult to see, the lowest branch is just below the reverse taper - so I would need to trim it to help with trunk flair (next year, or two, depending on how it progresses).

 

[Shibui]

Although still difficult to see, the lowest branch is just below the reverse taper - so I would need to trim it to help with trunk flair (next year, or two, depending on how it progresses).

We can only hope things go as planned Not always the case though, unfortunately.
I wonder what the root system looks like under there? Normally my tridents would be starting to develop wider buttress by this stage but that doesn't happen if all the roots grow down.

 

[MGTT]

I hear you. I didn’t dig it up this spring (it was last root trimmed / ‘repotted’ in spring of 2022), but I will next year.

 

[MGTT]

2024 Spring update- It was dug up and root pruned (unfortunately, no pics). It was resting on a piece of wood, which did result in a little bit of spread.
I cut off the back sacrificial branch since it was getting larger - plus, it did seem to help address the reverse taper - at least from some angles.
I probably should have chopped more off, but I knew we had more frosts coming, so I was somewhat conservative. I may go at it again later this spring when I see what sprouts/lives so I can pick the trunk line.
Pics are: today as it’s leading out, two sides post ‘repotting’, and a before work pic.

 

[MGTT]

@Shibui - I forgot to thank you in the above post. The pictures aren’t the best but the actual tree is really developing nicely.

Yes, I understood it doesn’t always go as planned but your advice has always been spot on.
It’s another week on and it looks even better.

While I did put a board on the roots, I’m fully onboard with regular root work accomplishing the same (or better). I just knew that I wouldn’t lift it again for 2yrs, so I was a little conservative.

But, the roots looked good/are coming along. There’s more spread below the soil, but I followed your advice - I’ve buried the roots, but they’re close to the surface to avoid starting another root system.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I truly appreciate the advice. I just wanted to get back with you to show how positive the results are.

 

[PonderingSage:]

Looks like good progress! I just put a bunch in the ground in grow-bags. This is good inspiration for what feels like a long project.

 

[MGTT]

Fwiw, this is coming along better than a tree that I let grow to the final trunk size, chopped, and am now working on the scar, branching and roots - It is taking forever to ‘build’.

While this one is thickening at a slower pace, the regular chops and root work seem to be paying off in a tree that will likely be further along than the other tree in a few years - and the other tree was/is already more than twice as old as this one.

I understand that growing out, doing one chop, and rebuilding has worked for many people. But, my experience is the more frequent chopping and lifting for root work is more appropriate for me.

(I happened to be in the middle of despairing about how long the other tree was taking, and decided to start a new tree based on posts from @Shibui recommending regular chops and root work. While it’s a small sample size, I couldn’t be happier with the progress).

Regarding grow bags, I’ve had inground trees in them, and I’ve used them as ‘pots’ for trees on benches (due to limited grow bed space). My current thoughts are they aren’t really necessary if you’re regularly lifting the tree for root work.
On the other hand, I really wish I had used one for the tree I really let grow out. The roots were a mess and it was a chore digging it up.

Enjoy your project! Having a bunch going at once should be fun - pick and choose the best to focus on, a nice way to go about it.

 

[MGTT]

A couple of months growth from the last pics.
Super happy with the progress, it definitely looks good (for what I’m going for). Very happy I tried the ‘Shibui’ method!! For me, much more satisfying than grow ‘big’ and chop.