Impart your knowledge o' wise bonsai sages..

[MrBojan9les]

I've always thought bonsai pretty damn cool, so I think I'm going to make an attempt.. I've got easy access to what I think is some decent stock.. I google'd "bonsai forum" and figured this looked like the place to go.. As I go thru the process I'm hoping for some useful advice...

First a bit of background that I figure would be important, then some pics, then I'm hoping that I will be blessed with some wisdom from the masters.

Background:
I'm a horticulture major w/an emphasis in landscape design and that's what I do for a living. So, the arrangement of plant material is certainly something that I enjoy and what I do.. I love plants in general, have grown many and really enjoy...manipulating them.. I do saltwater reef tanks, and starting setting up terrariums when I was young, did it as a business for displays in offices and such thru high school, stopped when I went to college but still dabble a bit.. Short story is, I have an interest in this type of thing, a good general feel and knowledge base..I think.

I'm in Phoenix AZ, and I often see the box trucks set up on the side of the road selling "bonsai"...and have a few thoughts on what they're working with.. First thing...they don't really have anything that you can grow outside here for a good part of the year..and that seems kinda ridiculous to me with the amount of sun that we have and the generally very consistent temperatures..albiet very hot, and then sometimes below freezing..(9a/b). They typically have a few chinese elms, a bunch of junipers, and not a lot else... Back behind the office that I work at we have a constant cycle of random landscape plants that come back from the installs for whatever reason...some damaged, some that shouldn't have been ordered, and some plants that looked like they were worth keeping from renovation projects when we have to remove and then re do.. I see plant material all the time on renovation jobs that I think would be cool to transplant...being a designer, I'm able to do just this and often do.. I've kinda taken it as my job to maintain all these plants..and most take a while to get back to sell-able condition.. So I can basically do what I want to, and have a nice variety of plants to work with....that could be used as bonsai..outside (for a lot of the year) here in Phoenix..I think anyway, hoping for help. And when I stop at those little sales on the side of the road, it makes me wonder why they aren't doing this....because I figure most of the ppl that buy them just provide them a slow and comfortable death... Hell, out here I figure you could stick an adjustable emitter from your drip system tied in to the valve for any pots of annuals...and then they'd get water every day, and it seems like it could all be very do-able outside here.. So, wanted to get your thoughts..sorry to ramble..

Also, I do have a 150w metal halide light that was for a saltwater reef tank that I have available as well...but, I'm not sure what the light spectrum is on it..I know that would be intense enough to probably be very useful for what I'm doing, but I wonder if the spectrum may be too cool and not really conducive to the growth of bonsai or plants in general.. Now, I also have a 400w high pressure sodium light with a separate ballast that I use for bromeliads, epiphytes and some other plants.. This is a much more "red", or warmer color spectrum compared to my metal halide.. Now, my worry with the high pressure sodium is that while it is very good for plants as far as their ability to use the light and produce flowers...it also promotes stretching between the nodes, so I figure maybe not conducive to pre-bonsai.. But I know there are certainly plenty of other techniques that are used by bonsai ppl to manipulate the plant to combat this...just not sure if it would be a great idea for the light to work against the main goal...


To start with..here are a few plants I selected.. I have a Japanese Privet, Bougainvillea - 'Torchglow', Bougainvillea - B. 'Karst', and a 'Little Ollie' olive.. I will follow up with my progress thus far.

Hello to you all, and will hope to see some replies from some...hopefully soon to be "fellow"....bonsai compadres' ..

 

[MrBojan9les]

Progress..

Ok, so you know what I've got to work with as far as plant material and knowledge...now, some pics of the plants that I'm basically hacking at blindly..

 

[milehigh_7]

First off, welcome fellow desert rat! I lived in Phoenix when I started bonsai and now I live in Las Vegas so hopefully I can help you avoid some of the things that have set me back. You have chosen great material for your area. Phoenix has some of the most awesome olive stumps and boogs I have ever seen, so collecting them is something you should look into.

One of our very active forum members (Poink88) has started faster than most and I would take his advice on getting good stuff quick. I am sure he will chime in but Craigs List is your friend, collect people's shrubs. Usually free and have the size to be believable bonsai quickly.

Secondly, very fast draining soil (like zero organics), water 4 or more times per day in the hottest driest times. Most important NO direct sun after 10AM in the summer. Shade cloth, shade cloth, oh yea and shade cloth.

 

[crust]

You have what may don't--you are lucky. A hort degree and access to removed landscape plants.
It is also not a surprise that you are also into aquaria. Most of the best bonsai geeks I know are or were there.

Here what I would definitely capitalize on.

*Throw away the runty little plants you have and resist getting anymore--your new vision is BIGGER.

*Learn through a crash internet and book course and Geek exposure about what good bonsai stock originating from landscape materiel looks like--avoid small stuff for now.

*Learn about how to collect large plants and care for them--keep it simple.
set up a growing area--get some basic stuff to grow them.

*Get with the working landscape crew bosses and be their friend explain your interest ask whats out there,have them save only the large most demented interesting torn out stock with great trunks and features.

* be selective--only the greatest, otherwise you time will be spent fiddling with mediocrity.

*root prune them hard as you dare and put in smallest pots possible--avoid cavernous potting.
keep them alive and growing.

*The rest will come.

That is what I would do anyways.

 

[bonsaibp]

Welcome to the site and the addiction-
Check out the Pheonix Bonsai Society you'll cut the learning curve in half.
http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/

 

[MrBojan9les]

You have what may don't--you are lucky. A hort degree and access to removed landscape plants.
It is also not a surprise that you are also into aquaria. Most of the best bonsai geeks I know are or were there.



Here what I would definitely capitalize on.

*Throw away the runty little plants you have and resist getting anymore--your new vision is BIGGER.

*Learn through a crash internet and book course and Geek exposure about what good bonsai stock originating from landscape materiel looks like--avoid small stuff for now.

*Learn about how to collect large plants and care for them--keep it simple.
set up a growing area--get some basic stuff to grow them.

*Get with the working landscape crew bosses and be their friend explain your interest ask whats out there,have them save only the large most demented interesting torn out stock with great trunks and features.

* be selective--only the greatest, otherwise you time will be spent fiddling with mediocrity.

*root prune them hard as you dare and put in smallest pots possible--avoid cavernous potting.
keep them alive and growing.

*The rest will come.

That is what I would do anyways.

Thanks for the advice..and you're right, I do feel I'm lucky to have some easy access for material.. And yeah, I agree..the stuff I have now that I took from our little "nursery" out back isn't the best...but, I figured I'd start messing with a few that I'm not worried about killing.. As far as finding the right material and getting ahold of it..shouldn't be too difficult, and I'm sure over time I'll come across some really cool stuff.. I'm working on a renovation project now and there are about 10 bougainvillea that were planted when the house was built about 20 years ago. So I'm planning on snatching some of those.. The ones I've got now I figured I'd so some experimenting on... I figured I should probably go ahead and prune the roots on the plants I have now more severly..but I was also thinking maybe I re-pot them in a 6"w x 4"t pot, get some new growth going and get them healthier and also beef up the trunks some. I've been doing a bit of reading, but I'm well aware that there is miles upon miles of info to draw upon and I've got a lot to learn..

Anyway, your advice all makes sense and is much appreciated!

 

[MrBojan9les]

First off, welcome fellow desert rat! I lived in Phoenix when I started bonsai and now I live in Las Vegas so hopefully I can help you avoid some of the things that have set me back. You have chosen great material for your area. Phoenix has some of the most awesome olive stumps and boogs I have ever seen, so collecting them is something you should look into.

One of our very active forum members (Poink88) has started faster than most and I would take his advice on getting good stuff quick. I am sure he will chime in but Craigs List is your friend, collect people's shrubs. Usually free and have the size to be believable bonsai quickly.

Secondly, very fast draining soil (like zero organics), water 4 or more times per day in the hottest driest times. Most important NO direct sun after 10AM in the summer. Shade cloth, shade cloth, oh yea and shade cloth.

4!!!! times a day?!?! That's crazy...but I guess it makes sense without organic material..what if I used something like those expandable, compressed coco bails for my media? It's void of nutrients, and is more or less an "organic" hydroponic media..but it does hold some moisture.. Is it cheating if I set up a drip system for them? I could use adjustable emitters, and timer can be set up to 4 times daily for however long I want... One thing I wonder about is the PH of the water...it's high here and certainly not ideal for most plants. That seems like it could be an issue when using a drip system..

Thanks!!

 

[rockm]

As mentioned before, think BIGGER. Even substantial sized landscape plants can be (and often are) converted into bonsai.

With non-conifer species, you can reduce the tops by lopping off the top two third, nine/10s or whatever. What you are after, ultimately, is the bottom six to 24 inches of trunk on any given plant. It that trunk resembles the trunk of a larger "life-sized" tree, it's worth digging up.

Given your access to old landscape shrubs and trees, this is going to come up sooner or later. FWIW, here in Va. we collected century-old boxwood, azalea and other landscape material and remove most of the plant, leaving only a fifth or so of the orginal above ground part of the plant. We also reduce the root mass by 75 percent or more (depending on feeder roots). This might give you an idea what can be done...

For the most part, bonsai are not "grown up" from small bonsai to become larger bonsai. Most older bonsai, even from Japan, come from plants that were "cut down" to bonsai size.

 

[Poink88]

LOL...a newbie here like you but will throw my 2 cents (as always). I am just lucky to find some nice & older landscape materials to collect...most just involved some sweat equity.

I am late and all I can do now is echo what most already told you...concentrate on the trunk and nebari (surface roots). The rest would be nice to have too but easier to get than the first two. Collected on the right time, most plants can take a lot of abuse. Most of mine are planted on 12" x 15" x 6" containers right away. A few really big ones went in 16" x 21" containers and those are also tight fit.

What I learned is to take some time to study the tree before you chop...and do the chop properly. Be brutal if you have to, else you will regret it when all your new growth goes where they will be removed again later. This is true for the roots, trunk, and branches.

If you can, take some photos before you plant the tree, it might help you remember later what you have under the soil...which could ultimately help you with your design.

Good luck and we will be looking forward your collected treasures soon!!!

Here are few good references (my favorites) to hopefully help you...
http://www.animabonsai.com/ or http://www.animabonsai.com/gallery/
http://sandevbonsai.blogspot.com/ or http://www.yamadoriarea.blogspot.com/
http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/
http://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/repotting-a-beast/
http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/gallery.htm

The internet is a mix of great advise and misleading ones...follow your heart when in doubt.