I'm back after defeat

[JimJam35]

so last year i joined this forum in high hopes of creating bonsai after doing some research and my girl friend having a sad looking tree that i hoped to bring back to life. in my efforts i killed the tree and was discouraged from the hobby. after going and buying proper tools and books. and doing a lot and a lot and after i thought was enough even more reading of everything that i could find on bonsai. so i have decided to enter back into the hobby with a lot more knowledge than last time, but still don't have too much confidence.

i recently purchased two bonsai trees from a reputable person at a flea market that they hold in my town. i bought a Chinese elm and a Cherry tree. i have since than been able to keep the trees alive and they seem to be having new growth on them. ( i was told and read that getting a finished bonsai was a smart way to start) i finally am getting some confidence that i am doing something right since these trees haven't died on me yet. ( Proper watering and soil is a giant help)

over the last year i found Japanese maple seedling growing in my curb where i park my car. i took some up and planted them in pots to hopefully grow some material to work with. they never really took off on me but did have leaves growing on them, so i assume they are still alive. the trunks on them are still red and fresh looking (they never hardened it seems) i am wondering if this is a problem??

i also had a Shimpaku Juniper that i was given as a gift. i was quite bushy looking after i had growing in the ground for a year. i decided to go ahead and try to trim it up and shape it a little. after thinning it out i came out with two trunks and long limbs that i don't know what to do with, maybe wire them or cut them down?? any ideas would be great.


finally i found a bonsai green house on the island and went to go see what they had. always being fascinated with maples, i purchased a Trident Maple, that i hope to make into a bonsai of my own. this tree seems to have potential but being my first tree to really work with i don't know how to approach it. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated


any advice or constructive criticism that can be given would be greatly appreciated. not looking to become a bonsai master over night( since thats impossible) but i would love to grow into a well rounded bonsai grower and have my love for the hobby to grow as well

 

[dick benbow]

like any swimming lesson, you jump in over your head, learn to dog paddle, and eventually realize you can swim.

reading books and watching videos for knowledge is great but ultimately you need to get your
own experience by getting your hands dirty. So It sounds like your off to a good start.

It's a journey remember, so pace yourself and expect a few bad days with the good.

 

[drew33998]

Look up the chop and grow method. I think that all these trees would benefit from this. I rushed in and bought some trees and threw them in bonsai pots. After learning for several years that many trees spend more time in training pots and even in the ground than in bonsai pots, I have realized that
1. Trunk size and nebari are the first things to try to develop if it is lacking
2. Primary branches are next
3. After several years in the above steps then one can begin to consider putting the tree in a final pot.
4. Buying good material buys you time

 

[Lazylightningny]

Leave them alone for now, then first thing next spring get them into some good bonsai soil and focus on keeping them alive before doing any styling. It looks to me like you have them in potting soil. Use the search function on this forum, stay with the posts here, use google, and learn about bonsai soils, repotting, watering and fertilizing. Those are the basics of keeping the plants alive. You have the whole winter to pick up a lot of info and learn the basics of good horticultural practice. There's a lot of good info on youtube, too. Try to be patient, too (my downfall)- don't do too much too fast. Just keep them alive for now. I'm new at bonsai, also, by the way.

Welcome to B-Nut. There are a lot of good people here.

Have a thick skin and pay no attention to the drama on this forum I think it goes with the territory.

 

[ChrisR]

I like what you said about getting a really nice tree. That's what I was told to do last time I got fed up. Get 2 trees you like and can be proud of, and focus your energy on keeping those healthy. Then you can get a bunch of material to play with that will satisfy your urges to re-pot or trim.

 

[youngsai]

That was my story to the T. And then I found out about collecting s and urban yamadori. Note I have a collection worthy of potential pride

It felt awesome when someone training in Japan three years told me the next step I should take was to send him my tree!

 

[ChrisR]

That was my story to the T. And then I found out about collecting s and urban yamadori. Note I have a collection worthy of potential pride

It felt awesome when someone training in Japan three years told me the next step I should take was to send him my tree!

Yamadori is what has gotten me really motivated. Since both of you found you were inspired by collecting and returned to the hobby, I wonder how many others follow the same path.

 

[Paradox]

Welcome back.
My advice from one newbie to another.
Keep studying books, forums, blogs, etc. Read and re-read and re-read again.
Join a club if you can.

Learn to keep the trees alive and growing. Start doing repotting and pruning to learn the process and see what the trees can handle. Always do things at the right time of the year and dont do too much at once or in one year. This way you set yourself up for better chances of success and learning from it. If things die try to figure out why but dont get discouraged, its part of learning bonsai!

I wouldnt go get a finished tree yet. Gain confidence in keeping different things alive and then step up your game into some nice pre-bonsai material from a real bonsai nursery.

By "real bonsai nursery" I dont mean Bonsai Boy so if that is where you went, get that out of your head. Ive been there and they dont have much that is worthwhile and you would be better off with stuff from a regular garden nursery than spend $60 on a maple whip.

When you do go looking for material. I know it is hard, but try not to be in the mood where you HAVE to find something to buy. Ive gotten to the point where I walk out empty handed most of the time because I simply cant find anything that fits the criteria: decent trunk, maybe some nebari, no grafts, branching or structure I can work with.

As to your trees. They are good for learning to keep things alive. The Chinese elm has had some training, and its pretty typical of mass produced Chinese elms (not necessarily a bad thing but its probably not going to develop into master material). The other trees are all very very young and dont have much growth yet. Most, if not all really need to get more growth and trunk before you can really do anything with them. Ive tried growing out Japanese maple seedings I found growing in my yard. They are very sensitive and I didnt have much success so dont be discouraged if they dont make it.

If you are gun shy about spending money (and I would understand why), I would suggest that, in the spring, you look at local landscape nurseries at Juniper Procumbens nana. You can get lucky and find some with a decent sized trunk (3/4 inch - 1 inch) diameter with a nice shape. Get some gloves and really look inside the foliage for the trunks and be picky! They are pretty easy to care for and you can start learning to repot, wire and prune that. If you are a little braver, add a prebonsai for $100-$200 from some place like Suburban Bonsai in Dix Hills or even New England Bonsai Garderns (take a road trip up there its well worth it).

Ask questions here, there are lots of people willing to help and yeah.... try to ignore the drama as hard as it can be.

 

[JimJam35]

I have been to bonsai boy and I thought it was great but they seem to be very pricey. I found a place in dix hills that was nicer and seemed to have better trees and better priced.

I try to read as mich as I can. Does amyone have any thoughts of john nakas techniques 1+2??

I see that a lot of people take larger trees and cut them down is that wjat you are talking about "chop and grow"?


Also with everyone saying I need my plants to grow bigger should I plant them in the ground or larger pots and let them mature more??

 

[Paradox]

John Nakas Bonsai Techniques 1+2 are very good references to have.

I would consider the place in Dix Hills to be more of a bonsai nursery than Bonsai Boy. Most of what Bonsai Boy has are mass produced seedlings that have little to no training whatsoever. Their junipers and some other species are mostly mallsai material. They do have some more expensive stuff that can be decent, but you can find equal elsewhere for less money. I highly recommend a road trip to New Englan Bonsai Gardens in Connecticut next spring/summer if you can. Its a long day but it will be an eye opener and worth it.

I would use your trees to learn and gain confidence in keeping trees in pots alive. Its too late this year to put themthe in the ground anyway. Maybe play with them a plan with pruning at the right time of year to learn how they respond. Once you do, start looking for some better prebonsai material. Learning on less expensive material is a good way to gain confidence before tackling more expensive and better trees. If the cheaper stuff dies it is less of a hit to your wallet and easier to move on from IMO.

 

[drew33998]

I have been to bonsai boy and I thought it was great but they seem to be very pricey. I found a place in dix hills that was nicer and seemed to have better trees and better priced.

I try to read as mich as I can. Does amyone have any thoughts of john nakas techniques 1+2??

I see that a lot of people take larger trees and cut them down is that wjat you are talking about "chop and grow"?


Also with everyone saying I need my plants to grow bigger should I plant them in the ground or larger pots and let them mature more??

Yes to the chop and grow. That is another way to get a good trunk on deciduous trees