Identity please: elm or hackberry or Ostrya virginiana (hop-flowered hornbeam)?

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Okay - I'm a big one for chiding people to hit the books and figure it out themselves. I'm stumped. What is this? Got these growing all over the farm. On young trees up to 20 feet tall bark is pretty smooth, without usual lumps and wings of a Hackberry. At first glance I assumed they were elms. but the leaf bases are symmetrical instead of oblique.

These seedlings are colonizing an old field, wide open area with full sun and sandy soil. They are not at a "forest edge". They are popping up all over in the fields, so they have an abundant seed source nearby. But I can't find the "mother trees".

Leaves have some hairiness and roughness but not much. Base it only slightly oblique, not pronounced the way most Ulmus are.

Bark is smooth right up to 20 foot tall specimens, a few warts and bumps, but nothing like a typical hackberry. Can't clearly identify older trees that the seedlings belong to.

No wings on twigs ruling out Ulmus thomasii - or Rock Elm. I believe I have some rock elms on the property, but on the far side from where these were.

Elm possibilities
Ulmus americana - leaves even on vigorous trees way too small, and too smooth.
Ulmus thomasii - Rock Elm - ruled out due to lack of winged twigs.
Ulmus rubra - Slippery elm - they are native to area, have not identified one on the property yet.
Ulmus minor - Field Elm or English elm - they are ubiquitous in Chicago, most I've seen have pronounced oblique leaf bases.
Ulmus pumila - Siberian Elm - again this is a good candidate but for the lack of pronounced oblique leaf base.

Celtis occidentalis - hackberry - I have found a mature hackberry next to the barn, warty trunk and big leaves with symmetrical leaf bases. Seedlings could be this, but leaves aren't long and pointed enough, or are they? Trunks on seedlings have been smooth, how old does a hackberry have to be for the warts to show up? Anyone know?

Ostrya virginiana (Carpinus virginiana - old name) Hop-flowered Hornbeam - I can not find an adult plant on the property to be a seed source. Though it is 80 acres and I have not had time to fully explore the trees yet. They do thrive in dryer soils than C. caroliniana.

Carpinus caroliniana - Loose flowered Hornbeam - we do have adult trees producing seed a distance away, but I have never seen C. caroliniana seedlings in full sun in a dry, sandy soil. All the hornbeams on the property are forest edge or in forest shade down near the stream. This is exposed upland field.

Anyone got a clue?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I think I need to add a bark photo, tomorrow, too dark now.

 

[crust]

not ostr or carp--elm

 

[fh05]

Elm

 

[Zach Smith]

Okay - I'm a big one for chiding people to hit the books and figure it out themselves. I'm stumped. What is this? Got these growing all over the farm. On young trees up to 20 feet tall bark is pretty smooth, without usual lumps and wings of a Hackberry. At first glance I assumed they were elms. but the leaf bases are symmetrical instead of oblique.

These seedlings are colonizing an old field, wide open area with full sun and sandy soil. They are not at a "forest edge". They are popping up all over in the fields, so they have an abundant seed source nearby. But I can't find the "mother trees".

Leaves have some hairiness and roughness but not much. Base it only slightly oblique, not pronounced the way most Ulmus are.

Bark is smooth right up to 20 foot tall specimens, a few warts and bumps, but nothing like a typical hackberry. Can't clearly identify older trees that the seedlings belong to.

No wings on twigs ruling out Ulmus thomasii - or Rock Elm. I believe I have some rock elms on the property, but on the far side from where these were.

Elm possibilities
Ulmus americana - leaves even on vigorous trees way too small, and too smooth.
Ulmus thomasii - Rock Elm - ruled out due to lack of winged twigs.
Ulmus rubra - Slippery elm - they are native to area, have not identified one on the property yet.
Ulmus minor - Field Elm or English elm - they are ubiquitous in Chicago, most I've seen have pronounced oblique leaf bases.
Ulmus pumila - Siberian Elm - again this is a good candidate but for the lack of pronounced oblique leaf base.

Celtis occidentalis - hackberry - I have found a mature hackberry next to the barn, warty trunk and big leaves with symmetrical leaf bases. Seedlings could be this, but leaves aren't long and pointed enough, or are they? Trunks on seedlings have been smooth, how old does a hackberry have to be for the warts to show up? Anyone know?

Ostrya virginiana (Carpinus virginiana - old name) Hop-flowered Hornbeam - I can not find an adult plant on the property to be a seed source. Though it is 80 acres and I have not had time to fully explore the trees yet. They do thrive in dryer soils than C. caroliniana.

Carpinus caroliniana - Loose flowered Hornbeam - we do have adult trees producing seed a distance away, but I have never seen C. caroliniana seedlings in full sun in a dry, sandy soil. All the hornbeams on the property are forest edge or in forest shade down near the stream. This is exposed upland field.

Anyone got a clue?

It's an elm, most likely American elm considering the elongated tips on the larger leaves. Definitely not hornbeam or hophornbeam or hackberry.

 

[Zach Smith]

From what I can see of the trunk, the juvenile bark also looks like American elm. Here's a small one I'm growing; you can see the similarities between the leaves and bark on mine and yours.

 

[Waltron]

Id also say american elm.

 

[CWTurner]

Could be Zelkova? If you have any of them nearby, they throw seedlings pretty prolifically.
CW

 

[BrianBay9]

Celtis occidentalis - hackberry - I have found a mature hackberry next to the barn, warty trunk and big leaves with symmetrical leaf bases. Seedlings could be this, but leaves aren't long and pointed enough, or are they? Trunks on seedlings have been smooth, how old does a hackberry have to be for the warts to show up? Anyone know?

Hackberry start to bark up when the trunk gets to be about 2" dia. But you can easily identify hackberry by new growth - grows in a zigzag pattern.



Also hackberry leaves have three veins that runs all the way to the base of the leaf




Unlike elm, that has only the central vein reaching the base

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@BrianBay9 -Hey Brian , THANKS, that is exactly what I needed/ As people weighted in I was willing to go along with elm, but vein patter in leaves is a botanically conservative trait that is easy enough to remember that I feel certain it is an elm. I definitely agree, it is an elm. As it gets older, and flowers, I will sort out which species (if it ever flowers) but this really cinches the genus. And it is good to here from someone from my Alma Matter. I graduated from UW Madison back in 1978. I love Mad-town.

When David and Zach said elm, I was pretty sure they were right, but this gives me the why, which solidifies it in my mind. Thanks