Ickyguy's mystery pine

[IckyGuyBonsai]

Picked up this pine last week from the local "literati" nursery, ie a bunch of random trees crammed together in a local guy's small garden. I've gone digging through his selection many times and found all sorts of material with some decent age/character to them due to the competition for light and water, with a lot of tham having pretty sparse foliage. I found this one buried back with the other conifers and was immediately attracted to the short needles, but the owner wasn't able to identify it, and there wasn't anything similar labeled. Here's some various angles I took when I got it.





I haven't done anything to it besides get it good and watered and threw on some osmocote. I'll get some closer pictures when there's daylight again, but I'm hoping someone with more experience with pines might be able to identify this guy.

As always, I'm open to any thoughts stylistically on this one, but I don't think I want to go the usual cut to the lowest branch and rebuild route. The trunk is starting to develop bark lower down but still has some flexibility to it further up, so I'm hoping I can get some movement in there. I've been contemplating this one for a bit and will definitely be able to make some decisions once I start wiring in fall, but here's some internet pictures I found when toying around with possibly keeping the split and going a more twin apex type design.




Still new to the whole sharing my trees thing, let alone my thought process along the way. Have at it!

 

[Doogliebop]

How many needles per fascicle?

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

How many needles per fascicle?

It's a 2 needle pine of some sort

 

[Doogliebop]

Likely some sort of scots but when a cultivar loses it's identification it defaults back to its species name. So it's probably just a scots pine now.

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

Likely some sort of scots but when a cultivar loses it's identification it defaults back to its species name. So it's probably just a scots pine now.

Funny enough, all the Internet pictures are of various scots pine. I didn't see any obvious graft when I went digging around the base, but some kind of small needle cultivar makes sense. Thanks for the input

 

[Doogliebop]

Free maple seedling too!

 

[pandacular]

No idea on the speices, but that first inspo pic you posted is so structurally similar to your tree, it's quite remarkable. I think that's an excellent path, as you have such a good model.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Thinking also Scots. Maybe Lodgepole. You in local Eugene club? Bring to Sept meeting.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Do you think it could be jack pine? Pinus banksiana.
Because I think that that's a possibility.

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

Here's some more detail pictures.
The bark

The buds

The needle size

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

Free maple

And a couple violets in there too!

Sept meeting.

I've been to a couple meetings, was there a couple months back with my yatsubusa elm. The September meeting is tentatively written in pencil, but I'm hoping to make it.

 

[Lorax7]

Do you think it could be jack pine? Pinus banksiana.
Because I think that that's a possibility.

The description of the garden where it came from makes me doubt that it’s jack pine, but I’m no tree identification expert. What makes me doubt is that I recall reading about the care requirements for jack pine and remember deciding against buying any because what I’d read said they absolutely need to be in full sun or they do very poorly. This tree looks too healthy to have come from a garden where it is crowded and has to compete aggressively for light if it is indeed a species that does really poorly in anything but full sun. Secondhand info from written materials on the web though, so take it with a big grain of salt.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have a jack pine in the shade because I repotted it too late in the season and it's doing well there.
What makes me think it's not scots pine is the fact that the needles stay small in a relatively large container. But the blue green hue isn't something jack pines tend to do.
There are just a few scots pines cultivars that do this, one is watererii and that one is not very popular in the US. It does stay small needle-wise.
Those are usually grafted though.

My scots pines with leg room get two inches of needle length. The ones with little sunlight do too.

Can you dig down a little around the trunk? Maybe there's a low graft, or it already blended because they're usually on scots roots.

 

[MaciekA]

This is scots pine, hands down. There is no chance whatsoever this is jack/lodgepole/etc.

 

[rockm]

My money would also be on Scots Pine. There are more than a few short leaved varieties in the U.S.

Pinus sylvestris (Archangel Redwood, Baltic Redwood, Norway Fir, Scotch Fir, Scotch Pine, Scots Pine) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox

Pinus sylvestris - Scots Pine Archives

Scots Pine (Pinus sylvestris) grows best in full sun, in acidic & well-draining soils. Scots Pine Tree is hardy from USDA zones 3 to 8. Shop Now!

www.coniferkingdom.com

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

Got the chance to go poking around at the base today and cleared some moss to check at what the root ball is looking like (good not great). It's already got a pretty nice radial spread going on, so I'll take that W.




If it is grafted, it's a good looking one. Pot seems pretty populated with mycorrhizae, and there seems to be a good amount of feeder roots, however the soil is pretty compacted and doesn't drain as freely as I'd like, especially for a pine, so I want to get at the roots next spring if possible.

So the question is, how hard of a fall pruning am I able to get away with, with a spring repot in mind? I'd like to at least get in and get rid of some bar branches before they cause any swelling issues. Will doing that and maybe even a little branch selection (ie start the cutting back to bifurcation) come fall be too much of a stress before a spring repot? Or should I go the conservative route and leave on everything to aid in the recovery from repot?

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

lodgepole

Scots

I'm happy with a Scots verdict. I only have a couple mugo and a Shore pine (pinus contorta v contorta) for comparison, but I'm comfortable saying it's not lodgepole. Disclaimer: I'm no expert.

For comparison here is some older shorter needles on my shore pine, along with some heavily fertilized ones from this season, as well as the buds.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Funny

 

[Potawatomi13]

Funny (Something happened to rest of post yesterday) Just cut off branch of Yamadori Lodgepole and buds exactly same as last picture. Bring to meeting please. Question will be resolved.

 

[IckyGuyBonsai]

meeting

The meeting falls on a day off for me this month, so I'll most likely be there with some trees. Can't miss out on going broke at the club sale