How Tough Is Chokecherry?

[ShadyStump]

I bought a chokecherry - prunus virginiana Canada red - last weekend, three gallon nursery can. It's horribly root bound to the extent that it barely takes water any more, but it's also already in full leaf.
Reading up on them, I've learned that these are among the first native North American trees to bud in spring, so I imagine I don't have to worry about any late frosts, but what about some heavy root reduction?

It needs repotting as soon as I safely can. I'd hate to have to wait another year, but I'd also be quite embarrassed to have to admit I killed it to the gorgeous woman who sold it to me.
I have a few choices of containers, and may be able to get a pond basket or similar of appropriate size, but all would require I chop at least half the root ball off.
My other option is slip pot it into a 12 gallon nursery pot I have, but then I'd be out any root/nebari development for a year or two.

So I guess what I'm asking is how much root can I take off in one go?
I'll add a pic once it's light outside.

 

[rockm]

I bought a chokecherry - prunus virginiana Canada red - last weekend, three gallon nursery can. It's horribly root bound to the extent that it barely takes water any more, but it's also already in full leaf.
Reading up on them, I've learned that these are among the first native North American trees to bud in spring, so I imagine I don't have to worry about any late frosts, but what about some heavy root reduction?

It needs repotting as soon as I safely can. I'd hate to have to wait another year, but I'd also be quite embarrassed to have to admit I killed it to the gorgeous woman who sold it to me.
I have a few choices of containers, and may be able to get a pond basket or similar of appropriate size, but all would require I chop at least half the root ball off.
My other option is slip pot it into a 12 gallon nursery pot I have, but then I'd be out any root/nebari development for a year or two.

So I guess what I'm asking is how much root can I take off in one go?
I'll add a pic once it's light outside.

Cherries are pretty tough, but I'd be cautious about heavy root reduction if the tree is in full leaf. I'd take a third of the root mass off, gently work the remaining roots. Slipping into such a huge 12 gallon pot would be counterproductive since you'd be swamping the roots with soil volume. Find a pot or make one that's a third larger than the root mass and as shallow as possible to accommodate it.

And you're not out of the woods with late frosts. Damage to the leaves is still possible, even though it leafs out early in the wild. Not an indication its leaves are impervious to physics.

Also don't know if you have tent caterpillars (bag worms) out that way, but they are attracted to cherries. it's the season for them here. If left alone and there are more than a few on the tree, they can defoliate it in a day or two. Happens alot around here with wild cherries.

 

[ShadyStump]

Here's the pic, with some of my pot options. I'm leaning towards the grow box (2x4 and 1x4 construction, about 24x24 outside dimensions, BTW) or the black produce basket.


Thanks @rockm!
Nothing lower than high 30s forecast before Mother's Day, which won't even produce a frost around here, but enough to cause concern for this situation.
I think I'm going with the produce basket. Would you recommend any top pruning? It's supposed to be windy, warm days, and dry for the foreseeable future.

Edit: Too early for any caterpillars here, but I anticipate squirrel trouble this year.

 

[rockm]

Here's the pic, with some of my pot options. I'm leaning towards the grow box (2x4 and 1x4 construction, about 24x24 outside dimensions, BTW) or the black produce basket.
View attachment 433002

Thanks @rockm!
Nothing lower than high 30s forecast before Mother's Day, which won't even produce a frost around here, but enough to cause concern for this situation.
I think I'm going with the produce basket. Would you recommend any top pruning? It's supposed to be windy, warm days, and dry for the foreseeable future.

Edit: Too early for any caterpillars here, but I anticipate squirrel trouble this year.

All of those, with the exception of the round clay pot are waaay too large and deep.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Here’s a idea I use moore often then not for project trees. See if you have, or can get, the next size up nursery pot and cut it down, adding holes on the sides and/bottom if needed. I have used lots of variations.

Another thought. You can even “nest” in another larger pot if it gets too hot for a nursery pot. Just toss a few bigger stones in the bottom of the larger pot to assure drainage and add a couple wedges on the side for stability.

Here’s some project maples etc waiting for the next stage of work.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'd hate to have to wait another year, but I'd also be quite embarrassed to have to admit I killed it to the gorgeous woman who sold it to me.

Kill the tree, go back, ask her to help you repot and not kill the next one.
I see no losses in this game my friend.

 

[ShadyStump]

Kill the tree, go back, ask her to help you repot and not kill the next one.
I see no losses in this game my friend.

Very tempting.

 

[ShadyStump]

All of those, with the exception of the round clay pot are waaay too large and deep.

Just realized how "off" the perspective in that photo is.
The box is too wide, but only 2.5 inches deep. The basket looks way bigger than it actually is. The sides come up to the current soil line of the tree and it wouldn't be filled to the top, and it's about the same width as the clay pot, a bit longer though. The others are just examples of what else I have on hand.

@Deep Sea Diver, I've done that before, cutting pots down. I just don't have much else that's significantly wider right now except for that huge one in the pic.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

How’s the choke cherry shady . Did not comment as I missed this thread . I have some choke cherry I started from seed planted in the yard. Drastic trunk chop on one last early winter to see what I get . Looks like it’s back budding I would say reasonable not necessarily great . Plan is to dig it up next spring so interested in your root work . Most don’t think it’s suitable for bonsai . I can attest there very hardy down to zone 3 depending on seed source

 

[ShadyStump]

How’s the choke cherry shady . Did not comment as I missed this thread . I have some choke cherry I started from seed planted in the yard. Drastic trunk chop on one last early winter to see what I get . Looks like it’s back budding I would say reasonable not necessarily great . Plan is to dig it up next spring so interested in your root work . Most don’t think it’s suitable for bonsai . I can attest there very hardy down to zone 3 depending on seed source

Appreciate the interest.
Followed @rockm's advice, pretty much to the T. Because it was so root bound I just pulled it from the nursery can soaked it in a bucket of water to loosen up the roots some, then sawed off about a third of the root. Plopped it in the big terracotta bowl with the last of the lava on hand, and topped it with cypress mulch to help it retain moisture. Cut off just a bit from the top; only what was low and wouldn't work for bonsai.
It's dark, so not going to try for a pic tonight, but it's growing well. The newer foliage is coming in red, but haven't seen any blossoms or fruit on it yet.

 

[berzerkules]

Chokecherry is really invasive up here. I dug a bunch last year because no one cares since they are invasive. They are taking over the willows territory if you can believe that. It's kind of a problem because the moose don't eat them so townie moose have less willow to eat in the winter, then they get hangry and dangerous. I'm getting off topic.

Chokecherries are tough as hell but in the little experience I have over the last year they don't seem to like to have their roots messed with too much while they are in leaf. The roots seem to be really fine so if they are in crappy soil it can be difficult to remove only what you want without taking off too much. The good thing is the propagate by suckers so they root easily(It's actually a bad thing and why they are so invasive up here). The ones I collected while in leaf or I didn't get a lot of roots seemed to do well for a couple weeks and then just crashed. Some looked dead for the rest of the summer, but I just left them in the corner of my yard over winter and every single chokecherry I collected last year is about to start popping buds. The ones that crashed abandoned their branches and are popping buds on the trunk.

They also layer easily so you might be able to avoid the mess in the pot and ground layer it.

I've heard they're no good for bonsai but I don't have much of a selection up here so I'll take whatever comes my way.

 

[ShadyStump]

This one does seem to have some longer internodes, and judging by how root bound it was compared to leaf size now, foliage probably doesn't reduce very much.
Still, trunk shape on this one intrigues me, and I like the deadwood, so it's worth playing with. I don't expect to have anything show worthy in my collection for a VERY long time, if ever.

I'll try to remember to get a new pic once I'm home from work tonight.

 

[HorseloverFat]

These trees freeze in solid blocks of ice, are subjected to harsh, subzero temperatures and brutal winds... ...and wake up.. push one "ugly" set of leaves... and continue on, like nothing happened.

That first set gets less and less "ugly" as you get towards PROPER wintering parameters.

Prunus Virginiana actually was the species that fostered and developed my love of Prunus... (mostly because it "stuck around" through some big "learning seasons" )

Very quick, and vigorous "Root-cutting" growers, as well...

Good to see you didn't do rootwork when in full leaf...

That's not necessarily a CHOKE cherry thing... not necessarily a PRUNUS thing.. more a temperate thing....

a.. "Kill a tree in a pot"... thing.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

In case you guys did not know . Choke cherry was very important to the indigenous people of upper North America . Step one Pemican basically dried meat mixed with stuff there version of trail jerky . Deer moose buffalo whatever . When the Europeans arrived amazed at its ability to not spoil . ( a cache was dug up
On the prairies that was 200 years old and except for the outside layer studies proved it was edible) secret ingredient choke cherry the fruit is sour but has incredible anti toxin and preservation properties . Had multiple medical uses . Also very good anti inflammatory . Most modern people think it’s un edible this is far from the truth . It’s sour but has great flavour . I have very fond memories of my grandmothers choke cherry jelly on toast The fruit is very good when sweetened and or combined with a sweet fruit . A coworker inherited a native recipe book from his grandmother . A lot of the recipes were ways to preserve meat and food . The choke cherry marinated smoked northern walleye was incredible

 

[shinmai]

Chokecherry syrup on pancakes is the eighth wonder of the world.
As to how tough chokecherry is, I’d say tougher than any of my three mothers in law. That’s a pretty high bar.

 

[ShadyStump]

Here she is this afternoon. Something about the angle or whatnot really makes the trunk look narrower than it is. In the time I've had it, I've not gotten blossoms or noticed fruit developing. Not sure what that's about, but probably just from a late repot.

A late season frost with as much as an inch of snow coming over the weekend. I'll have to figure out what I want to do with it for that.

 

[Divide_by_zero]

Mmmm, chokecherries. Good memories, had two aunts who used to pay us kids to pick for them (nickle a pail or so if I remember correctly) they made jams, jellies, syrup and wine every summer,... mighty fine wine .

I've never tried them as bonsai but I do remember they grew everywhere and were sort of like raspberries to kill once they got established (i.e. impossible) I imagine they will be similar to Saskatoon Berries (amelanchier sp?) as far as leaf reduction goes, ...they will not, but they aren't that large that they wouldn't work as katade or chiu size. As I recall some bushes developed pretty good root bases over time but they had a whole bunch of trunks off one clump, that might be problematic depending on the style you want.

I any event, I look forward to seeing what you can do with yours, keep us posted. Now you've got me wondering if I can find a good size pickling crock and scout out a wild bush or twelve and how much my grand daughters would want per pail?? I think I might enjoy some wine this summer...

 

[HorseloverFat]

Here is one of the ones I an working with.

Get out of the water! You’re getting all Prunus!

Soooo.. In past conversations i’ve had with @Leo in N E Illinois and others about my local cherry trees, I’ve basically decided against it. I always though, in the back of my mind, that if I stumbled across a decent, easily accessible specimen, I would “give it a shot”. Today, upon...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Flowerhouse]

Prunus virginiana "Canada Red" is one of the best growers in my landscape here. Mine are about to bloom, fruit ripens in August or so. The ones I have produce very little fruit. The first year I thought they were blooming ahead of their pollinators, but at this point I think they are more of a flowering variety. I wanted to add 4 to the landscape this year, was bummed that none of the local stores got them in. I just got a call from a greenhouse 40 miles away and he has lots of them, so after our deep freeze this weekend I will go get what I need.
The dark-red-almost-black color these are later in summer is gorgeous next to blue spruce. I hope your tree survives its potted life.

 

[ShadyStump]

Thanks everyone for the thought and info! So far this my favorite tree in my meager collection, mostly because it's the first one I've ever acquired for a purpose and with an eye for what I want to develop in it. The rest have all just been grab it because it's grabbable.
I'll start a real progression thread for it once it's in a place where I can really start doing something with it. Might be a while of course, but I imagine I can clean out the rest of the old nursery soil next spring, and maybe some light structural pruning.