How to help my tree

[BudHound]

Hello,

This tree is about 8 or 9 months old, I've been starting from seeds for about two years and this is the furthest I've managed to make it.

I am starting to feel like it isn't happy or healthy any more, and I need advice on what to do.

It seems like the dead needles need to fall off or be trimmed, and the thing is in desperate need of a hair cut, but I'm scared to prune or cut it back.. I really don't want to kill it.

There seem to be small branches that are starting to develop off the trunk, and the needles coming straight out of the top have been growing more lately.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I did search a bit but was unable to find anything that was quite like my situation.

Thank you.

 

[BudHound]

Sorry, this probably should have gone in new to bonsai, please feel free to move it.

 

[Manbris]

Not dead yet- looks like a JWP on its root stock or Pinus strobus. The small new needles are new growth - probably try to setting buds for next year. Like other say, I would just leave it and water it for the rest of the year. You soil looks too wet- if it is JWP then it does not like seating in water. Good luck.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

How’s the light situation for this guy? Pine should be in full sun all day every day, as much as possible. Unlike a lot of species, I have found that low vigor pines really do well just being moved to full sun and allowed to dry a bit between waterings.

 

[BudHound]

Not dead yet- looks like a JWP on its root stock or Pinus strobus. The small new needles are new growth - probably try to setting buds for next year. Like other say, I would just leave it and water it for the rest of the year. You soil looks too wet- if it is JWP then it does not like seating in water. Good luck.

Thank you for the reassurance. The soil is indeed very wet, I JUST watered it because I was thinking it felt droopy. I usually do not over water, but I'll admit to a bit of panic watering this last go round.

How’s the light situation for this guy? Pine should be in full sun all day every day, as much as possible. Unlike a lot of species, I have found that low vigor pines really do well just being moved to full sun and allowed to dry a bit between waterings.

The lighting was not full sun, but partial sun, and only part of the day. From the other threads I have found here today, and with your comment confirming it, I have already made adjustments to where it is. Currently getting blasted by fresh morning sun, and I'll figure out a better spot to put it for a permanent home.



Do I just leave the long dangling almost dead needles to do their thing? They make it look like its hiding behind its hair, I feel bad for it.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Annual needle plucking of dead and yellowing needles is required to open up the foliage and increase air circulation while getting more light to the interior of the tree. Old, dead needles should be removed by either plucking them manually or cutting at the base. Usually this is done each year in late summer to fall and that way you can see what is going on in the interior of the tree. I would at least remove the dead stuff now. It would help us if you can figure out what species of pine you have since they are managed differently. Also what is your soil like? Pines generally should be in a free draining mostly inorganic soil. Read the thread below but remember they may be talking about older trees and not necessarily seedlings.

Thread 'Needle Plucking Advice'

Jan 21, 2020

Hey folks.

I don’t know if this question has been answered somewhere in the forum already - apologies if it has, perhaps you can redirect me to the appropriate posts. Anyway.....

Needle plucking - why do it? I’m a little confused - doesn’t pulling needles remove vigour from a branch? And therefore slow the growth of the shoot on that branch? It also makes a branch more leggy doesn’t it and pushes the growth away from the trunk? And then we want to chase the foliage back to the trunk ...... ? If we candle cut JBP’s or pinch JWP’s and Scot’s, we want adventitious buds or needle buds...

• AndyJ
• Replies: 20
• Forum: Pines

• 

 

[BudHound]

I would at least remove the dead stuff now.

Will do.

It would help us if you can figure out what species of pine you have since they are managed differently.

I believe these seeds came from the kit still, so its either Black Spruce or Loblolly Pine.

Also what is your soil like? Pines generally should be in a free draining mostly inorganic soil.

I have two types of soil in it. One is very rocky, not really soil. I put a small layer of it on bottom, then put a larger layer of the more dirt type soil in the middle, followed by another thin layer of the rocky soil on top. It has been in this mix for about 3-4 months.
Rocky: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M68B4JG?th=1
Dirty: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09YZZ6XB1

Read the thread below but remember they may be talking about older trees and not necessarily seedlings.

Will do!

 

[BudHound]

I would at least remove the dead stuff now.

Will do.

It would help us if you can figure out what species of pine you have since they are managed differently.

I believe these seeds came from the kit still, so its either Black Spruce or Loblolly Pine.

Also what is your soil like? Pines generally should be in a free draining mostly inorganic soil.

I have two types of soil in it. One is very rocky, not really soil. I put a small layer of it on bottom, then put a larger layer of the more dirt type soil in the middle, followed by another thin layer of the rocky soil on top. It has been in this mix for about 3-4 months.
Rocky:




Dirty:

Read the thread below but remember they may be talking about older trees and not necessarily seedlings.

Will do!




I trimmed back a lot of the dead stuff. There is still so much more. Should I keep going? This already felt really aggressive..

 

[Dav4]

My bet is you've got root issues... either from over-watering or under-watering, over-potted in overly wet soil, perhaps over-fertilizing too, which will look like an overall lack of water. Any chance you fed this heavily before the symptoms developed? Knowing your location along with your routine care and where you keep the tree, along with a picture of the whole tree and pot, along with the soil, might help.

Fwiw, I don't needle pluck seedlings until they're at least a few years old. I also don't needle pluck single flush pines, with few exceptions.

 

[BudHound]

I am in Southern California. I don't really have a routine so much as I just give it water when the soil seems dry. I usually stick my finger down a little bit to see if it is just surface level or not. It is possible I gave it water that had fertilizer in it, yes. I use it for other plants and I believe I did give it to the bonsai a week or so ago.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

My bet is you've got root issues... either from over-watering or under-watering, over-potted in overly wet soil, perhaps over-fertilizing too, which will look like an overall lack of water. Any chance you fed this heavily before the symptoms developed? Knowing your location along with your routine care and where you keep the tree, along with a picture of the whole tree and pot, along with the soil, might help.

Fwiw, I don't needle pluck seedlings until they're at least a few years old. I also don't needle pluck single flush pines, with few exceptions.

I usually wouldn’t pluck seedling needles either but dead needles are just dead and interfere with air circulation and sunlight getting through.

 

[rockm]

Japanese white pine is an alpine or higher elevation tree. As opposed to Japanese Black Pine which loves heat and humidity since it’s a more coastal/
Lowland species. White pine It does not like heat and humidity that much. White lines that don’t get a cold enough winter can slow down and decline.

This is also somewhat applicable to the North American White Pine (Pinus strobus) Upland cold weather species native to the northern U.S. into Canada.

Both JWP and EWP also get a bigger nightime cooling ratios in their native ranges - cooler nights are an important part of completing photosynthetic cycles. Hot nights all summer that don’t get below 70 can take a toll

 

[Orion_metalhead]

If the options are black spruce and loblolly pine, its loblolly pine because.... its a pine and not a spruce.

I agree 100% with @Dav4. Wherever the advice came from to mix soil agregates did not do enough research / read up on soil dynamics. A single consistant soil is always better than a stratified media for bonsai. My bet is the top layer looks dry so you water it, then the middle layer which holds water never dries out and rots the roots in that spot, then the bottom coarse layer is also always wet due to lack of airflow and lack of capillary flow. Youre getting no living roots in the top drier aggregate, rotting roots in the bottom two aggregates.

You said its been in this mix for 3-4 months implying an april to may repot. What was the condition of the seedling upon repot? How much root mass did you remove?

I dont think it makes it, personally.