How long can you leave a sacrifice branch ?

[davetree]

Here is small pine that I just cut back. How long can the sacrifice branch stay on ? I am in no hurry, and I am considering up-potting to speed things up. Anyone with any experience ? Thanks for your replies

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[capnk]

Our basic rule-of-thumb is to leave the sacrifice branch until the new leader has a diameter about 2/3 that of the main trunk. Also, you need to slow the sacrifice leader, so remove all the needles except those at the end.
Good luck,
Chris Kirk
Telperion Farms

 

[davetree]

Why slow the sacrifice ? I thought it was there to build bulk. Thanks

 

[iant]

I think Chris might be talking about a sacrifice leader (2nd trunk segment) rather than a sacrifice branch?
Ian

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I won't speak for Chris, but Gary Wood works with Chris, and last time Gary was here, he similarly told me to strip the needles off the sacrifice branch on a JBP, except at the end. Partly to slow down the sacrifice branch so the final branches aren't weakened and die back, and also to prevent the final branches from being shaded out.

See first photo for an example of growing out a pine; the final tree below, and the sacrifice branch much higher up.

Pines are built different than d-trees in that sacrifice branches are generally not used at all in the final design of pines, whereas with d-trees, you use a small section of the sacrifice branch as the next section of trunk...clearly present in the second photo.

 

[davetree]

Your first pic is exactly what I want to do. I will pull needles on the sacrifice branch. Thanks.

 

[crust]

Something successful I have done with conifer sac growth is once it is ready to come off I do not just cut it off . Some times if one lops off big sac growth, especially if it is low, it can result in die back to the roots, or it has for me, also the giant scar can be slow to heal. So, once ready, I take a saw and cut through the sac growth on the high side until a small area is all that is supporting it then leave it grow like this and let the new scar start healing. Once a callus has started to roll I finish cutting off the branch. I find it really helps develop vigorous callusing of the wound and eliminates extra die back.

 

[capnk]

Why slow the leader? I should have set the stage. This process usually comes when you are satisfied with the size of the base/nebari. Removing foliage from the sacrifice leader just allows more "energy" to go to the new leader.
Second rule of thumb: consider removing the sacrifice leader when it is so tall that you can't reach the top to prune it (see the picture). A ladder is a good solution, if you only have a few trees to work on....
Removing foliage from the sacrifice leader also helps to promote new foliage on the lower trunk.
Chris

 

[davetree]

Thanks for clarifying, Chris. I will let it grow strong this year, maybe three.

 

[iant]

Nice little forest you got there Chris!

 

[Mike Westervelt]

How long can you leave a sacrifice branch ?
1.Until it has done its job
2.Until it starts to cause problems, reverse taper, unacceptably large scar, loss of taper, can't get your car into the garage, impeding air traffic, etc.

Here's an Austrian pine I recently made a descision to remove(mostly, see Crust's excellent advice above) the bottom sacrifice because I felt it had swelled the base of the trunk to my satisfaction, and also it was taking up too much room.
I've elected at this time to keep the top sacrifice to continue healing the large scar from the initial trunk reduction, and to continue smoothing the taper at the apex.

 

[davetree]

Thanks for the replies, it is much appreciated.

 

[Jason]

Thanks for this discussion folks. I have one other question regarding sacrifice branches. When is the appropriate time to remove the sacrifice? I've heard during winter dormancy to prevent dieback and I have heard in August during heave growth to stimulate back budding. Any thoughts from those who have done it? Does it depend on your goals?

 

[Jason]

Thanks for this discussion folks. I have one other question regarding sacrifice branches. When is the appropriate time to remove the sacrifice? I've heard during winter dormancy to prevent dieback and I have heard in August during heave growth to stimulate back budding. Any thoughts from those who have done it? Does it depend on your goals?

Anyone? ......bump

 

[MidMichBonsai]

Another question with regard to sacrifice branches. Which is ideal? Is it better to grow out a single sacrifice leader or 2 sacrifices; 1 leader and one side branch much lower down as indicated in the Austrian Pine post?

It seems like the lower one may cause issues with swelling on the main trunk but I could see that it might help to have 2 branches feeding the lower trunk to increase development speed and help with taper between the lower sacrifice and the upper.

Thoughts?

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Jason,
Winter is considered appropriate for chopping/pruning conifers because you'll get less pitch mess.
I've had better luck chopping deciduous trees after winters cold is past, anytime from just before bud break to mid summer.

MidMich,
It depends what you are trying to accomplish. A sacrifice will only increase girth below its location. The pine in my post was stovepipe strait, but lots of low buds, so I let the lowest one run wild for 3-4 years to gain some bulk below it.
The top sacrifice is being used to help close up the big scar from the original chop, and
add taper to the top, if left on too long however it would have the opposite effect as the new leader approaches the size of the trunk below it.

 

[Jason]

Jason,
Winter is considered appropriate for chopping/pruning conifers because you'll get less pitch mess.
I've had better luck chopping deciduous trees after winters cold is past, anytime from just before bud break to mid summer.

MidMich,
It depends what you are trying to accomplish. A sacrifice will only increase girth below its location. The pine in my post was stovepipe strait, but lots of low buds, so I let the lowest one run wild for 3-4 years to gain some bulk below it.
The top sacrifice is being used to help close up the big scar from the original chop, and
add taper to the top, if left on too long however it would have the opposite effect as the new leader approaches the size of the trunk below it.

Thanks Mike. That second question is important too. Having more than one sacrifice branch could be strategic. It might eat up some of the extra vigor and shorten internodes and needle length in the actual portion of the tree your keeping. Good discussion...

 

[fourteener]

I didn't read all the post, but my first concern is that your sacrifice branch is so close to your future first branch you might end up with reverse taper unintentionally.

 

[JoeH]

would that hold true for most sacrifice branches on trees? I have two at the base of my FL Maple that I am letting go nuts. Should I strip the leaves?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

would that hold true for most sacrifice branches on trees? I have two at the base of my FL Maple that I am letting go nuts. Should I strip the leaves?

Principals are the same, essentially. Conifers and deciduous broadleaf trees do respond somewhat differently, so timing and length of time a sacrifice is kept vary.

You only need to strip leaves if it is shading or crowding growth you want to keep.

Deciduous, the sacrifice usually is removed and replaced more frequently than a pine. In part because deciduous like elms and maples grow faster than pines.