How do you secure your rocks in your pots?

[kjo/a]

My root over rock spruce is entering its second season of rock hugging now.

I was absent mindedly looking at the new growth extending today when it suddenly occurred to me that I never planned how I was going to go about securing this tall heavy rock into a pot some day, and there are no lumps and bumps I can use to pin it down.

There's very little I can find online about the act of securing rocks to pots... How do you do yours?

 

[jeffapana]

Bonsai Mirai has several videos on this if you are a member. In a nutshell, use gasket rubber wherever stone touches pot so you don't end up with a cracked pot and use wood blocks to prop up the rock if it does not sit flat. If you don't have good tie-down spots on the rock drive some screws into it (use stainless or galvanized screws so they don't rust).

 

[PA_Penjing]

If I ever did this I would use aquarium sealant / marine adhesive. I would imagine that if you tore the rock out of the pot the adhesive would stick to the rock rather than the smooth pot but .. I wouldn't experiment on something nice

 

[Kullas]

Aquarium sealant is 100% clear silicone. It would stick it nicely. Just use sparingly so you can remove it. It will take a little time to setup.

 

[penumbra]

If I ever did this I would use aquarium sealant / marine adhesive. I would imagine that if you tore the rock out of the pot the adhesive would stick to the rock rather than the smooth pot but .. I wouldn't experiment on something nice

Aquarium sealant is 100% clear silicone. It would stick it nicely. Just use sparingly so you can remove it. It will take a little time to setup.

This is what I have done. It has been my adhesive of choice for several decades.

 

[kjo/a]

This is what I have done. It has been my adhesive of choice for several decades.

That's a great idea, and thanks everyone for the suggestions

After seeing these suggestions I'm thinking I might make a small metal stand to seat the rock on attached to the rock with silicone, then wire the stand into the pot through premade holes.

 

[AaronThomas]

I have a couple of ROR elms that I have never had to secure. Once the tree is snug against the rock and the roots have grown as they should beneath the rock... normal tree to pot wiring will hold composition in place. It looks as though your rock is wide enough and not very top heavy for you to not have issues.

 

[Shibui]

How to secure depends on the type of ROR.
Rocks can be glued to pots for root ON rock where the tree won't be repotted. Just make sure you choose the pot well.
For genuine ROR where roots straddle the rock and reach the soil underneath you will eventually need to repot and change soil so securing the rock directly to the pot is not a good strategy.
In the early stages where the tree won't be shown it doesn't really matter how you tie it in. Run a string or wire or strap up over the top of the rock and round the outside of the pot if necessary. Plant it deep enough that it stays stable without tying. Do whatever you need to do to make it stable for a year or 2.
Before the tree is ready to show you should have a good mass of roots under and round the rock. Use those roots to tie the tree into the final bonsai pot in the same way you'd tie any other tree. If the tree is still unstable I'd say it is not yet ready for a bonsai pot.

 

[sorce]

I wouldn't trust aquarium sealant.

Welcome to Crazy!

There's all sorts of fasteners you can drill into the bottom and sides of the rock. Eyelets, Staples, through holes...

I'd want to be able to grab it by the tree and shake the whole thing around safely.

A well tied down tree offers many health points.

Sorce

 

[kjo/a]

I wouldn't trust aquarium sealant.

Welcome to Crazy!

There's all sorts of fasteners you can drill into the bottom and sides of the rock. Eyelets, Staples, through holes...

I'd want to be able to grab it by the tree and shake the whole thing around safely.

A well tied down tree offers many health points.

Sorce

Exactly! This is my concern. As much as I'd love to tie it down securely by the roots alone, it's a tall heavy rock and liable to wobble...

And as much as I'd love to drill into it, it's solid limestone, and in all honesty I have no idea how I'd approach it...

Have also been considering gorilla glue, since I use that in my terrariums and it doesn't seem to degrade in water.

 

[AaronThomas]

You have plenty of time for this to grow... like years. So you may be surprised about how much root growth you will have once it's ready for a pot.
Limestone is super soft. If you have a drill and a mason bit you can drill with little effort. Like Sorce said... IF you need extra support you could dill the bottom of the pot and anchor a bolt with wide washers and a nut... creating a post to slide the rock over. Then wire your roots to the pot... but don't think you'll need.
Glue is poor choice in my opinion.

 

[sorce]

I'm absolutely with the , just keep growing out the roots idea.

It's the best hiding(in time), easiest plan.

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

I wouldn't trust aquarium sealant.

Then you have never tried it.
Trust is from experience, not from avoidance.

 

[sorce]

Then you have never tried it.
Trust is from experience, not from avoidance.

It never worked well to stack rocks in a fish tank so I just doubt its longevity.

Sorce

 

[LittleDingus]

It never worked well to stack rocks in a fish tank so I just doubt its longevity.

Sorce

It's like any other glue (including the secretions of roots): how well it holds depends on what it's holding.

Smooth, non-porous materials don't glue well.

Limestone can be tricky. "Liquid" glues don't usually work very well because there can be a loose out of layer to the stone that prevents the liquid from entering pores to bind properly. Plus it's tough to get the limestone surface to interlock properly with another material to form a webbing a liquid glue can bind easily.

Silicone or putty type glues can work better because they can "adapt" one substrate to another. That is, the silicone binds to each side to each side of the joint seperately and forms a layer in between rather than knit the seam together like liquid glues tend to do.

Epoxies form their own webbing. Epoxies can flow into very small pores even after they become mostly unworkable. They drip everywhere! But that oozieness lets them get deep into the tiniest pores on either side of the joint. The curing process of epoxy is a chemical reaction where the polymers make long chains. These chains interlink and form the webbing that binds the two sides together.

Weather proofing is a different consideration.

 

[penumbra]

33 years now on one rock in pot, another I dissembled but it was work.
I have been using silicone sealer since the early 1970s when we built the first all glass aquariums. It is not a glue and therefore does not act like a glue in the traditional sense. It is a thick calk like sealer with amazing tack, strength and longevity. If surfaces are clean it will hold any rock, porous or smooth. Rock can degrade but silicone will not.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Exactly! This is my concern. As much as I'd love to tie it down securely by the roots alone, it's a tall heavy rock and liable to wobble...

And as much as I'd love to drill into it, it's solid limestone, and in all honesty I have no idea how I'd approach it...

Have also been considering gorilla glue, since I use that in my terrariums and it doesn't seem to degrade in water.

A good trick I have used to secure wire to rocks may help. Take a thin cutting disc blade for a Dremel or die grinder cut a slit it the rock . Use 2 part epoxy to secure a metal ring at 50’percent depth then you can attach wire to the ring . It’s safer then drilling or driving a screw into the rock for rungs go to a fishing store . Get stainless rings for attaching hooks . As for silicone sealant there are solvents used in the automotive repair industry that will de solve the sealant . May be useful but be cautious around plants

 

[Frozentreehugger]

33 years now on one rock in pot, another I dissembled but it was work.
I have been using silicone sealer since the early 1970s when we built the first all glass aquariums. It is not a glue and therefore does not act like a glue in the traditional sense. It is a thick calk like sealer with amazing tack, strength and longevity. If surfaces are clean it will hold any rock, porous or smooth. Rock can degrade but silicone will not.

2 other sealants from the automotive trade you may want to try or experiment with . Are automotive Urethane Used mainly to glue windshields into cars . And seam sealer used to weatherproof joints where steel panels join . Both are stronger adhesives than silicone Urethane is thinner but stronger adhesive . Seam sealer is thicker and makes a better hard rubber shock pad . Both avail in caulking gun tub application. . There are other 2 part products but most require a special gun specific to each manufacture to apply

 

[River's Edge]

My preferred method is to epoxy wire to the rock and tie in to the pot. this allows for normal repotting as the Root Over Rock or Tree on Rock develops and throughout the care and maintenance of the Bonsai. Simple process of pressing wire into a crack, crevice or drilled hole, applying two part epoxy and then wiring into the pot in the desired position with blocking if required. Usually it is sufficient to place soil appropriately to hold position with wires in place to tighten after positioning same as securing a tree in the pot. if you are short of holes in the bottom simply tie the wire to a short section of stiffer copper wire underneath the main hole in the bottom. This is the same process as wiring a tree into a one hole pot except the wire is tightened on the bottom side.
Here is a sample. This rock was secured using the method above to the shallow pot. The tree is a collected Shohin shore pine. Rock is Lava.

 

[River's Edge]

The epoxy I prefer is called " Oatey Fix It Stick" all purpose putty!