How big of a chop can a Chinese elm take?

[GailC]

I got a mallsai elm last summer that is absolute crap. I tried to air layer the top off, it failed.
Now I have a plain curved trunk with one clump of branches.

I, for the life of me, can't figure out how to fix this thing.
I brought it in for the winter and put it in a pot of regular potting soil. I was thinking about doing a drastic chop once it recovers and starts growing.

At this point its a waste to try and fix without chopping but will survive cutting off all the branches but one tiny one?

 

[sorce]

I'd wait till just before spring.

Looks like that could be a good restart.
Using that lil one as the first branch and a new cut sprout for the leader.

Sorce

 

[PABonsai]

Maybe just chop back to the nicely growing branching? It comes out of the soil to the right so that hard left angle would add some interesting movement over time. Or you could train one of the leaders at that not more vertical.

 

[PABonsai]

Node*

 

[Hack Yeah!]

I agree, no need to chop so low. Chop higher, maybe rotate it clockwise a bit at repotting.

 

[Zach Smith]

I got a mallsai elm last summer that is absolute crap. I tried to air layer the top off, it failed.
Now I have a plain curved trunk with one clump of branches.

I, for the life of me, can't figure out how to fix this thing.
I brought it in for the winter and put it in a pot of regular potting soil. I was thinking about doing a drastic chop once it recovers and starts growing.

At this point its a waste to try and fix without chopping but will survive cutting off all the branches but one tiny one?

You've done the bonsai world a great service by drastically chopping your S-curve mallsai Chinese elm. The biggest challenge you face right now is getting it through the Idaho winter. Expect it to pout indoors. Give as much light and humidity as you can. Chinese elms are tough customers, so hopefully it'll come through fine.

Now, the next challenge you face is the need for vigorous growth. You won't get much of that in a shallow bonsai pot, so you might want to consider putting it into an oversized nursery pot and letting it grow out for a while. At some point or other you'll see a promising new leader and you can chop to it and regrow the whole tree.

Good luck with your project!

 

[GailC]

You've done the bonsai world a great service by drastically chopping your S-curve mallsai Chinese elm. The biggest challenge you face right now is getting it through the Idaho winter. Expect it to pout indoors. Give as much light and humidity as you can. Chinese elms are tough customers, so hopefully it'll come through fine.

Now, the next challenge you face is the need for vigorous growth. You won't get much of that in a shallow bonsai pot, so you might want to consider putting it into an oversized nursery pot and letting it grow out for a while. At some point or other you'll see a promising new leader and you can chop to it and regrow the whole tree.

Good luck with your project!

It actually survived outside last winter in a bonsai pot. It was a milder then normal winter but still well below freezing for weeks.

I actually moved it into a large pot with miracle grow soil yesterday. I was really disappointed to find the roots had hardly grown in the year + since I got it.

I'll put it on a light stand on a humidity tray.and hope for the best. Part of me wants the damn thing to die, part of me wants to save it.

If I run across a better one at a box store, I might just let this one go.

 

[Zach Smith]

It actually survived outside last winter in a bonsai pot. It was a milder then normal winter but still well below freezing for weeks.

I actually moved it into a large pot with miracle grow soil yesterday. I was really disappointed to find the roots had hardly grown in the year + since I got it.

I'll put it on a light stand on a humidity tray.and hope for the best. Part of me wants the damn thing to die, part of me wants to save it.

If I run across a better one at a box store, I might just let this one go.

I had a very small Chinese elm specimen that stood up to an ice storm back in 2014 that froze it to the bench, followed by some 15F weather for a couple of days. I know that doesn't sound like much to an Idahoan, but down here it's serious business. I lost a lot of trees in that storm, but not that little Chinese elm (and the others I had at the time). So yes, they are mighty tough.

I detest S-curve Chinese elms, so one of my missions in life is to produce decently styled specimens. It always amazes me how few good ones there seem to be on the market; only the ugly imports.

 

[TN_Jim]

It actually survived outside last winter in a bonsai pot. It was a milder then normal winter but still well below freezing for weeks.

I actually moved it into a large pot with miracle grow soil yesterday. I was really disappointed to find the roots had hardly grown in the year + since I got it.

I'll put it on a light stand on a humidity tray.and hope for the best. Part of me wants the damn thing to die, part of me wants to save it.

If I run across a better one at a box store, I might just let this one go.

With the soil you have and in a bigger pot, I believe it could benefit from neglect water wise, especially given the season -if the first couple of inch or two are dry and not significantly cold to touch (colder than abiant temp soil is wet soil), give a drink. Otherwise, let it ride.

@Zach Smith, good to here your thoughts on this. Thanks.

...Shouldn’t ya mulch this up outside till spring or such? Don’t think a humidity tray is necessary given the potting soil.

 

[Ryceman3]

I have no idea about your environment/weather/conditions etc.. so take this with a grain of salt but in my experience, you can pretty much cut/chop where you like and start from scratch. Here's an example :
This spindly elm was over 2m tall (around 7' tall) with a very narrow trunk. I cut it to about 5cm (2") from the base at the end of winter (which for me is August) in 2016. The last shot is how it looks from about 4 months or so ago (my most recent pic). I find chinese elm to be very resilient trees and you can do quite a bit to them and they will bounce back quickly. Good luck with it, I agree that taking out the 'S' can only improve it!

 

[TN_Jim]

I have no idea about your environment/weather/conditions etc.. so take this with a grain of salt but in my experience, you can pretty much cut/chop where you like and start from scratch. Here's an example :
This spindly elm was over 2m tall (around 7' tall) with a very narrow trunk. I cut it to about 5cm (2") from the base at the end of winter (which for me is August) in 2016. The last shot is how it looks from about 4 months or so ago (my most recent pic). I find chinese elm to be very resilient trees and you can do quite a bit to them and they will bounce back quickly. Good luck with it, I agree that taking out the 'S' can only improve it!

Gangsta

 

[GailC]

@Ryceman3 thanks for the advice, your tree looks great. That what I would hope to do with mine.

I didn't want one of the S curved ones but its all I could find. There is some kind of elm growing in a alley close by, I should take some cuttings next spring.

 

[ConorDash]

Nothing wrong with the mallsai elm!

you know what you are getting with it. The downside is time... a lot of time to turn it in to something better. But they are good projects. I air layered mine 3 years ago. I was slow with everything which wasted time. The top half has been in the ground for 1.5-2 years now I think. It’s a 7ft high Bush, it’s trunk is a monster now.. I’ve got pics if interested.
I’ve only just planted the bottom half in ground now, so we will see what that looks like in a few years.
Are you sure your Elm is healthy too? I don’t ever tend to see leaves like that, browning.. if they are gonna fall, mind tend to go yellow and drop but most time they act evergreen and will just replace leaves in spring. None of mine are dropping leaves this year.. all very strong green right now. Except the wych elm. That drops everytine.

 

[Shibui]

You can chop Chinese elm wherever you like. Even if there are no side shoots. They will reliably sprout from quite old wood. In addition they will usually produce many new buds all around the exposed cambium of the cut so you usually end up with a ring of new shoots growing around the perimeter of the cut. That habit gives good opportunity to grow an elm broom style tree. Just need to thin out the new shoots so they don't cause a big bulge.

 

[GailC]

Are you sure your Elm is healthy too? I don’t ever tend to see leaves like that, browning.. if they are gonna fall, mind tend to go yellow and drop but most time they act evergreen and will just replace leaves in spring. None of mine are dropping leaves this year.. all very strong green right now. Except the wych elm. That drops everytine.

It had a fair amount of neglect thus summer during the hot months. Some of the smaller limbs have probably died off.

 

[leatherback]

Are you sure your Elm is healthy too?

That was the first thing in my mind. Is it healthy enough to veer right back when chopper.
I would not do a low chop.

Nothing wrong with the mallsai elm!

Exactly.
What I did do with one..

 

[GailC]

That was the first thing in my mind. Is it healthy enough to veer right back when chopper.
I would not do a low chop.



Exactly.
What I did do with one..
View attachment 271694

I'm not going to chop it until its healthy and growing.

Thats really interesting. I thought about planting mine at a steep angle and trying a cascade with the cluster of branches.

 

[John P.]

Don’t give up on it. A chop and a lot of growth, along with some root work and it’ll be great.

 

[ConorDash]

That was the first thing in my mind. Is it healthy enough to veer right back when chopper.
I would not do a low chop.



Exactly.
What I did do with one..
View attachment 271694

that’s a healthy elm. It freaking out and extending shoots over 6-9”. That’s good

It had a fair amount of neglect thus summer during the hot months. Some of the smaller limbs have probably died off.

Fair enough, yeh you know what you did wrong then. Just correct it going forward .

 

[John P.]

I have no idea about your environment/weather/conditions etc.. so take this with a grain of salt but in my experience, you can pretty much cut/chop where you like and start from scratch. Here's an example :
This spindly elm was over 2m tall (around 7' tall) with a very narrow trunk. I cut it to about 5cm (2") from the base at the end of winter (which for me is August) in 2016. The last shot is how it looks from about 4 months or so ago (my most recent pic). I find chinese elm to be very resilient trees and you can do quite a bit to them and they will bounce back quickly. Good luck with it, I agree that taking out the 'S' can only improve it!

Incredible progress in a short time!