Hoping to learn more about bonsai'ing Royal Poinciana's / Flame Tree

[SU2]

This is an incredibly common specie where I live, am surprised I never got one until recently when happened to find this little guy:

Upon ID'ing it and googling for 'royal poinciana bonsai', I was blown-away at how well-suited it seems for bonsai, the way the leaves are composed of leaflets is just great! This is an incredibly common species in my area, growing all over (not just landscape specimen), which had me thinking I'd struck the proverbial gold-mine until I realized that I'd never heard of / seen others bonsai'ing this specie, which has me thinking I've gotta be missing something here - I was told they experience pretty significant branch die-back when deciduous, but that's about it...have seen the pics so I know great bonsai can be made from them but just have the feeling I'm missing something here, I mean from what I can see these should be way more popular to bonsai in my zone than privets or ilex yet I've never even heard of them in any of my FL bonsai pages/blogs/instagrams, is there something wrong with them that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for anything on this specie, right now - after getting this guy to survive - all I can think about is how many large, mature specimen are out there, and what the procedure for extreme trunk-chopping is!! Hell I have one on the side 'woods' of my property that's >15' tall, I've got half a mind to go and cut it down to 1-2' right now to see if it backbuds!

 

[SU2]

(close-up pic of leaves, in hope of confirmation that this is 'royal poinciana'/'flame tree' (is 'flame tree' used colloquially? Sounds so much cooler!!)

 

[petegreg]

Have you seen this tree flowering? Trying to ID it, Delonix regia has a beautiful red flowers, but more leaflets on those compound leaves. Not excluding this possibility.

https://www.google.sk/search?biw=36...-img..7.11.5840...0i8i30i19k1.242.pFQOPP7g328

https://www.google.sk/search?biw=36...mg..1.8.3592...35i39k1j0i67k1.278.pjErsT1FK8w

 

[bonhe]

This is a beautiful tree. It reminds me my high school time. My high school had one large tree in the playground. When we saw it in flowers combined with balm cricket sound, that meant the school year was going to be ended soon! I wish I could raise it in my area. I wish I could raise it in my area! I bought one tree about 10 years ago. It died after one winter season due to coldness. When I visited Florida, I could see it in every corner of the streets. It is very interesting that I could hear the balm cricket sound there, too. The balm crickets and flamboyant tree are always together!
Bonhe

 

[SU2]

Have you seen this tree flowering? Trying to ID it, Delonix regia has a beautiful red flowers, but more leaflets on those compound leaves. Not excluding this possibility.

https://www.google.sk/search?biw=36...-img..7.11.5840...0i8i30i19k1.242.pFQOPP7g328

https://www.google.sk/search?biw=36...mg..1.8.3592...35i39k1j0i67k1.278.pjErsT1FK8w
View attachment 172746

I haven't seen it flower no, I just collected it recently - these trees (flowering in bright-red) are incredibly common in my area though, so I have every reason to deduce it's that except you're right, the leaflets don't look true-to-pic (at least the one you linked- maybe cultivars, or stages of growth, see different leaf formation?)

Do you have any thoughts on what else it could be? Closest thing I can think would be mimosa hostilis but I doubt I'm that lucky (have searched for mimosa h's before and never found one)

 

[SU2]

This is a beautiful tree. It reminds me my high school time. My high school had one large tree in the playground. When we saw it in flowers combined with balm cricket sound, that meant the school year was going to be ended soon! I wish I could raise it in my area. I wish I could raise it in my area! I bought one tree about 10 years ago. It died after one winter season due to coldness. When I visited Florida, I could see it in every corner of the streets. It is very interesting that I could hear the balm cricket sound there, too. The balm crickets and flamboyant tree are always together!
Bonhe

It really is!! Whether it's mimosa hostilis or royal poinciana (really want to positively-ID this thing!!), the compound leaflets just lend themselves to bonsai so well! The trunk on this guy is incredible too IMO, am really hoping it survives winter as I only collected it recently, when I did it lost the several shoots it had and then started a new growth-flush, which is pictured above, but w/ the cold-snap we've got now I'm seeing the freshest/supplest growing-tips are fading in color, am really fearing it'll die-back (r.poincianas are known for die-back) and, due to its situation, not survive :/ The one you got a decade ago that died in the winter, were you in Riverside? Just checked and that looks like similar enviro to mine, if it couldn't survive there I'm not too-confident in mine surviving If I think it's going to die I may just make it a house-plant over the winter, I really want it to survive and know it'd have a MUCH better chance next winter, after it'd had time to establish a proper root system!

 

[Anthony]

You would have to graft branches.

About 6 branches.

Does not make a great or easy Bonsai ---------- forget the image you may see
on-line, someone photo-shopped a mature tree into a bonsai pot.

Enjoy in the landscape, and try a Texas Ebony instead, or Brazilian raintree.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Vin]

I'm pretty sure that's an invasive Mimosa tree. They are a challenge to make a convincing bonsai.

 

[Starfox]

Looks like a Robinia a bit.

 

[petegreg]

I haven't seen it flower no, I just collected it recently - these trees (flowering in bright-red) are incredibly common in my area though, so I have every reason to deduce it's that except you're right, the leaflets don't look true-to-pic (at least the one you linked- maybe cultivars, or stages of growth, see different leaf formation?)

Do you have any thoughts on what else it could be? Closest thing I can think would be mimosa hostilis but I doubt I'm that lucky (have searched for mimosa h's before and never found one)

...and fruit? Try to look at those in surroundings with the same features. It may help. It can be either something native or introduced/invasive. It may or may not flower for you in a pot for a few years.
Robinia has thorns.
But the trunk is very nice and I think it should bud back well.

 

[AlainK]

The only time I heard the word "poinciana" before you mentioned it was back in the 70s. Now, it rings a bell

We would dance and drink "Rhum arrangé", and oh, that was ahhh....

Good swing...

 

[bonhe]

It really is!! Whether it's mimosa hostilis or royal poinciana (really want to positively-ID this thing!!), the compound leaflets just lend themselves to bonsai so well! The trunk on this guy is incredible too IMO, am really hoping it survives winter as I only collected it recently, when I did it lost the several shoots it had and then started a new growth-flush, which is pictured above, but w/ the cold-snap we've got now I'm seeing the freshest/supplest growing-tips are fading in color, am really fearing it'll die-back (r.poincianas are known for die-back) and, due to its situation, not survive :/ The one you got a decade ago that died in the winter, were you in Riverside? Just checked and that looks like similar enviro to mine, if it couldn't survive there I'm not too-confident in mine surviving If I think it's going to die I may just make it a house-plant over the winter, I really want it to survive and know it'd have a MUCH better chance next winter, after it'd had time to establish a proper root system!

Yes, it was in Riverside. I believe it really likes humidity!
Bonhe

 

[SU2]

I'm pretty sure that's an invasive Mimosa tree. They are a challenge to make a convincing bonsai.

Is there any way to get to the bottom of this? I can take more photos if it'd help! I'd be very happy if it were a mimosa it's just that I've gone on searching for them very hard before on many occasions and never found any specimen in my area, and with how ubiquitous the royal poinciana is in my area I figured it's just gotta be that - deductive reasoning, not necessarily a r.poinciana but just seemed the most likely, while the leaflets aren't conforming to the pictures I suspect that's just an issue of too-small/juvenile shoots/leafs that aren't true-to-form yet - would *really* love to get to the bottom of this though!!

Why would a mimosa be challenging to bonsai? I'd have thought that a tree whose leaves are composed of leaflets would be inherently more-suited for bonsai than a species w/o compound leaves...It seems these (mimosa.H, r.poinciana) are so well-suited, given the leaflets look like small leaves!

 

[Vin]

I got nothing on the identification other than the leaves of a Mimosa close when it rains and at night. I don't know if that's the case with a tropical Delonix regia. You'll have to do the research or wait until it flowers or gives other clues. The compound leaves on a Mimosa have long stems with shorter leaf stems. My understanding is they are difficult (not impossible) to work with which is why you don't see many as bonsai. @William N. Valavanis here on the nut has one: http://www.mellobonsai.com/care/Mimosa-bonsai.aspx. Maybe he can provide a more educated overview.

 

[StoneCloud]

I have a flame tree I grew from seed (which I collected from the pods) This was when I lived in FL. Took fairly easily and the leaves do close at night on them. As all have said they are very beautiful trees and the trunks are very muscular though not great for bonsai. This IMO yours is def a royal poinciana though I could be wrong.

here is a pic of mine from seed. This pic was taken in August the trunk was just starting to get woody.

 

[SU2]

I got nothing on the identification other than the leaves of a Mimosa close when it rains and at night. I don't know if that's the case with a tropical Delonix regia. You'll have to do the research or wait until it flowers or gives other clues. The compound leaves on a Mimosa have long stems with shorter leaf stems. My understanding is they are difficult (not impossible) to work with which is why you don't see many as bonsai. @William N. Valavanis here on the nut has one: http://www.mellobonsai.com/care/Mimosa-bonsai.aspx. Maybe he can provide a more educated overview.

Good stuff, thanks! Yeah it's definitely not a mimosa H, those are hardy to usda zn.6 and mine (in my 9a area) was having a rough time during this cold spell (even though it was being brought-in to the patio at night, it was one of the trees exhibiting the most stress- very worrying on something you love and know to be incredibly weak, maybe even your weakest specimen of all!)

 

[SU2]

I have a flame tree I grew from seed (which I collected from the pods) This was when I lived in FL. Took fairly easily and the leaves do close at night on them. As all have said they are very beautiful trees and the trunks are very muscular though not great for bonsai. This IMO yours is def a royal poinciana though I could be wrong.

here is a pic of mine from seed. This pic was taken in August the trunk was just starting to get woody.
View attachment 172926

'Flame Tree'=flamboyant tree=delonix=Royal Poinciana, correct? Are you positive on your ID of your guy here? Mine's 100% the same specie as yours, and you seem quite convinced mine's a poinciana! Think this is as close to a positive ID as I need to be satisfied in calling that 'case closed'

I've gotta say I haven't noticed the leaves closing at night, will take a look this evening to see that they do (how long after sunset should I check to expect them to have finished their closing?

How long ago were you in FL when you planted that seed? And how'd it take the move to NC? Unsure what zone you're in (your flair doesn't have it!) but mine seems incredibly cold-sensitive, could just be its current state of health...But re propagating from seed, they're from those giant, banana-shaped seed pods right? If you could tell me how to properly germinate seeds that way, I'd be real appreciative! I've tried before w/o luck, I suspect the pods were dead/not viable...

 

[Clicio]

'Flame Tree'=flamboyant tree=delonix=Royal Poinciana, correct? Are you positive on your ID of your guy here?
If you could tell me how to properly germinate seeds that way, I'd be real appreciative! I've tried before w/o luck, I suspect the pods were dead/not viable...

I've got some, from seed I collected in Bahia, Brazil. I live in São Paulo, where the climate is similar to Florida.
I soaked the seeds in 70 degrees C water and left them in the water overnight; planted in nursery soil 24h later, it was the beginning of the Spring here (September). They have sprouted in early December (Summer here in Brazil).

 

[StoneCloud]

'Flame Tree'=flamboyant tree=delonix=Royal Poinciana, correct? Are you positive on your ID of your guy here? Mine's 100% the same specie as yours, and you seem quite convinced mine's a poinciana! Think this is as close to a positive ID as I need to be satisfied in calling that 'case closed'

I've gotta say I haven't noticed the leaves closing at night, will take a look this evening to see that they do (how long after sunset should I check to expect them to have finished their closing?

How long ago were you in FL when you planted that seed? And how'd it take the move to NC? Unsure what zone you're in (your flair doesn't have it!) but mine seems incredibly cold-sensitive, could just be its current state of health...But re propagating from seed, they're from those giant, banana-shaped seed pods right? If you could tell me how to properly germinate seeds that way, I'd be real appreciative! I've tried before w/o luck, I suspect the pods were dead/not viable...

The tree didn't come w/ us on the move almost all my trees are still in FL being cared for by a friend. We just moved in Sept due to Irma.

Yea these pods




I didn't open the pods until they dried out on their own. Don't remember how long that took as I just threw them in the shed. I don't think the pods have to dry out, you can open them yourself and get the seeds out.

Now the way I know you are supposed to do it is that on one end of the seed is the embyro, you need to scarify this end with sand paper, clip it etc...

you're also supposed to soak the seeds for 24 hours in warm water.

Now the way this one came to be, is not by any of those ways above. My wife just took the seed and pushed it with her finger in a pot on our front patio. She didn't even tell me haha! She guesses it was about 3 weeks before it sprouted. The pot in sprouted from had some dracaenas already planted in it and got watered once maybe 2 times a week.

Hope this helps!!

@Clicio That's great!

 

[Timbo]

Depends on the seed and if it's a 'hard' coat. you can wait a long time if you didn't get the coating to peel off IMO.

You would have to graft branches.

About 6 branches.

Does not make a great or easy Bonsai ---------- forget the image you may see
on-line, someone photo-shopped a mature tree into a bonsai pot.

Enjoy in the landscape, and try a Texas Ebony instead, or Brazilian raintree.
Good Day
Anthony

Mine are moody but i don't live in a native range, might be OK for him.
That said the Texas ebony is so much better to care for. For no reason my Flamboyants just struggles indoors when all my other trees grow slow but fine.