Help with sick citrus

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Wally5

Seedling
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Hello! I'm very worried about my little tree. Approx. 4 years old, in pictured tropical bonsai soil mixed with peat moss. It's been losing older leaves, and I've been treating w/ dissolved epsom salts for magnesium deficiency for about a week, but I'm seeing little improvement. The tips of some new leaves are beginning to brown, which has me concerned. Any help is appreciated!
Note: I haven't been fertilizing up until recently, so the tree being so small is probably normal
IMG_1706.jpgIMG_1708.jpgIMG_1709.jpg
 
Not very familiar with citrus, but it appears this is being kept indoors. I would hazard to guess it needs more light, and now. If you add your location to your profile, it gives us a better idea of how to answer your questions. That way we know what season and growing zone you're in. I would recommend placing it outside in a shady area for a few days, and gradually increase the amount of sun it gets. I know that citrus groves get full sun all day long, so that is (most likely) the issue.
Also, the soil looks like it might be a little bit too fine, and holding too much moisture.
I'm sure more experienced artists will correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope that someone with citrus experience will be able to give you more accurate and detailed advice.
 
BonsaiManic said:
Not very familiar with citrus, but it appears this is being kept indoors. I would hazard to guess it needs more light, and now. If you add your location to your profile, it gives us a better idea of how to answer your questions. That way we know what season and growing zone you're in. I would recommend placing it outside in a shady area for a few days, and gradually increase the amount of sun it gets. I know that citrus groves get full sun all day long, so that is (most likely) the issue.
Also, the soil looks like it might be a little bit too fine, and holding too much moisture.
I'm sure more experienced artists will correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope that someone with citrus experience will be able to give you more accurate and detailed advice.
Click to expand...
I'm in Central VA.
And what soil would you reccomend?
 
Something that drains very well, yet doesn't dry out right away. Watering is one of the most challenging and complicated parts of bonsai, in part because it seems so simple. It is affected by many variables: climate, humidity, season, species, etc. Many people use akadama, pumice, perlite, gravel, different types of bark. It depends on so many things; it's hard to give a definite answer.
I live in the Chihuahua Desert, so I need a soil/substrate that retains more water than you would need in Virginia. I'm still a beginner myself, but I'm reading and learning more and more everyday.

markyscott

Thread 'Introductory soil physics'

Questions about soil physics come up all the time and I find that I repeat myself a lot on this topic. I'm going to try and write a reference for folks to refer to on this topic. I'm expressly NOT going to offer you any advice on what soil you should use in your garden, whether you should use organics or inorganics, or anything on that line (that's where these soil threads go south). Instead, What I'm going to do is offer some basic information on which you might base your own choices. I'll try to do this at a high level, but this is related to my profession, so it's easy for me to go...
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This thread has been invaluable to my understanding of soil physics, water retention, porosity, etc.
 
Also consider that leaves don't live for ever. Four years is a long time to keep foliage alive. It might just be natural shedding.
 
BonsaiManic said:
Something that drains very well, yet doesn't dry out right away. Watering is one of the most challenging and complicated parts of bonsai, in part because it seems so simple. It is affected by many variables: climate, humidity, season, species, etc. Many people use akadama, pumice, perlite, gravel, different types of bark. It depends on so many things; it's hard to give a definite answer.
I live in the Chihuahua Desert, so I need a soil/substrate that retains more water than you would need in Virginia. I'm still a beginner myself, but I'm reading and learning more and more everyday.

markyscott

Thread 'Introductory soil physics'

Questions about soil physics come up all the time and I find that I repeat myself a lot on this topic. I'm going to try and write a reference for folks to refer to on this topic. I'm expressly NOT going to offer you any advice on what soil you should use in your garden, whether you should use organics or inorganics, or anything on that line (that's where these soil threads go south). Instead, What I'm going to do is offer some basic information on which you might base your own choices. I'll try to do this at a high level, but this is related to my profession, so it's easy for me to go...
  • Like
  • Love
This thread has been invaluable to my understanding of soil physics, water retention, porosity, et
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips!
 
Wires_Guy_wires said:
Also consider that leaves don't live for ever. Four years is a long time to keep foliage alive. It might just be natural shedding.
Click to expand...
Yes, but my concern is the appearance of this on much younger leaves. The one pictured with a browning tip is a few months max.
 
So is sunlight likely the issue here or is there some other sort of deficiency?
 
Real talk because thus far this thread has beat around the bush; Citrus wants full outdoor sun. Grown in these conditions it’ll get a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the energy it’d get outdoors in direct sun. Bonsai techniques require a lot of energy and vigor. You can keep a citrus houseplant limping along for giggles indefinitely, but it’d be deeply dishonest to claim that it can become a good bonsai with a detailed canopy and reliable immunity against health issues purely sitting next to a window. Light starvation is the only issue indoors. Every other issue is downstream of this.
 
MaciekA said:
Real talk because thus far this thread has beat around the bush; Citrus wants full outdoor sun. Grown in these conditions it’ll get a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the energy it’d get outdoors in direct sun. Bonsai techniques require a lot of energy and vigor. You can keep a citrus houseplant limping along for giggles indefinitely, but it’d be deeply dishonest to claim that it can become a good bonsai with a detailed canopy and reliable immunity against health issues purely sitting next to a window. Light starvation is the only issue indoors. Every other issue is downstream of this.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I'll give that a try
 
If it has always been indoors, probably so. Even in a south-facing window, it's not getting anything close to the amount of light it would when growing outside. Soil moisture and humidity could be contributing factors, but my guess is that the primary culprit is lighting. Citrus grows in areas of high humidity. And most homes have very low humidity compared to natural outdoor conditions. Most trees of any species don't like wet roots. However, some prefer the soil to dry out between watering, while others (maybe maples?) do better with moist, but not wet soil.
I would research your species to help guide your care. As I said previously, I'm not familiar with citrus care. Unfortunately, bonsai (as I'm discovering every day) has very few universal care guidelines, so each one almost needs be treated individually, or at least as a species. I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I'm a very new student of this art myself.
 
BonsaiManic said:
If it has always been indoors, probably so. Even in a south-facing window, it's not getting anything close to the amount of light it would when growing outside. Soil moisture and humidity could be contributing factors, but my guess is that the primary culprit is lighting. Citrus grows in areas of high humidity. And most homes have very low humidity compared to natural outdoor conditions. Most trees of any species don't like wet roots. However, some prefer the soil to dry out between watering, while others (maybe maples?) do better with moist, but not wet soil.
I would research your species to help guide your care. As I said previously, I'm not familiar with citrus care. Unfortunately, bonsai (as I'm discovering every day) has very few universal care guidelines, so each one almost needs be treated individually, or at least as a species. I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I'm a very new student of this art myself.
Click to expand...
I do really appreciate the advice. I'll move it out to the porch once the hurricane dregs pass over.
 
I have a lemon tree that was one of my first trees that I began bonsai with ~5 years ago. I keep it outside in nearly full sun for ~7 months of the year (while nighttime temps are above 35F) and bring it inside in a bright windowsill for the winter. By the time February rolls around, my tree's leaves look like that, kinda sad and yellowing. But after I put it outside in late March/early April it greens up to a nice deep green within about 3-4 weeks.
Hope that helps!
 
Wally5 said:
I'm in Central VA.
And what soil would you reccomend?
Click to expand...
Your tree will do best outside during the summer. It won't survive outside during the winter.

I have an orange tree I grew from a seed I got from an orange 30 years ago as a challenge because my boss at the time had one and said I wouldn't be able to do it. Long story short, he is no longer with us but my tree still is.

I put it outside in the summer. I bring mine inside around Oct 15 each year and put it back outside end of May, beginning of June when its warm enough.

In the winter I put it under 6500K daylight bulbs. It is lava and pumice and it gets watered every day in the summer and up to every 2 or 3 days in the winter.
 
Paradox said:
Your tree will do best outside during the summer. It won't survive outside during the winter.

I have an orange tree I grew from a seed I got from an orange 30 years ago as a challenge because my boss at the time had one and said I wouldn't be able to do it. Long story short, he is no longer with us but my tree still is.

I put it outside in the summer. I bring mine inside around Oct 15 each year and put it back outside end of May, beginning of June when its warm enough.

In the winter I put it under 6500K daylight bulbs. It is lava and pumice and it gets watered every day in the summer and up to every 2 or 3 days in the winter.
Click to expand...
So I'll leave it out for about 15 or so days and in that time would you reccomend purchasing some of those daylight bulbs?
If you wouldn't mind sharing a link to the bulb you use I'd appreciate it!
 
Last edited:
Wally5 said:
So I'll leave it out for about 15 or so days and in that time would you reccomend purchasing some of those daylight bulbs?
If you wouldn't mind sharing a link to the bulb you use I'd appreciate it!
Click to expand...
Yes I would get some lights for the winter. Your tree will do much better.

I have several tropicals I overwinter so my lights might be a bit big for just one plant but I'll describe it to you so you get the idea of what you might be looking for. If you want to get a few more plants, a setup like mine would work fine.

I have 2 setups over 2 tables for my tropical wintering quarters. One is a single fixture with 3 bulbs, the other uses 2 fixtures for a total of 6 bulbs. Both use 4 foot florescent bulbs.

The bulbs I started with are 4 foot florescent tubes that are T5 tubes, 32 watts each, 6500K daylight. 65000K is the wavelength most suited for plants.

I am now replacing those tubes with LED equivalent tubes that will fit in my fixtures. I'll post a picture of my setup later when I get home.

You are also in Virginia so you might be able to leave your tree out a week or two more. I bring mine in when temperatures look like they will start dropping below 50 at night. BRT don't like going below that. Ficus are a bit more forgiving and can go down to 40 but I figif I'm bringing in the VRT. I might as we'll bring them all in.
 
Paradox said:
Yes I would get some lights for the winter. Your tree will do much better.

I have several tropicals I overwinter so my lights might be a bit big for just one plant but I'll describe it to you so you get the idea of what you might be looking for. If you want to get a few more plants, a setup like mine would work fine.

I have 2 setups over 2 tables for my tropical wintering quarters. One is a single fixture with 3 bulbs, the other uses 2 fixtures for a total of 6 bulbs. Both use 4 foot florescent bulbs.

The bulbs I started with are 4 foot florescent tubes that are T5 tubes, 32 watts each, 6500K daylight. 65000K is the wavelength most suited for plants.

I am now replacing those tubes with LED equivalent tubes that will fit in my fixtures. I'll post a picture of my setup later when I get home.

You are also in Virginia so you might be able to leave your tree out a week or two more. I bring mine in when temperatures look like they will start dropping below 50 at night. BRT don't like going below that. Ficus are a bit more forgiving and can go down to 40 but I figif I'm bringing in the VRT. I might as we'll bring them all in.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it!
 
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