Help with cuttings please :)

[Clorgan]

So I'm new to bonsai and got this Chinese Elm a few days ago, seems to be doing well!

There were some very long parts, so I pruned a few bits, not too much until it's settled into its new home!

I heard they're easy to propagate, so I thought it'd be fun to try with the cuttings rather than waste them. Put some in a pot and a couple just in water. Left them on a table near patio doors to a south facing garden.

Will this work do you think? Is it a good position for them and should they be covered? Thanks very much!

 

[Clorgan]

I'm Claire by the way! 27 years old, from England

I'm a teacher so would love to learn about propagation so I can try it with the kids at school!

 

[Shibui]

Those are pretty skinny cuttings Claire. I have much better success when they are a bit thicker. I suspect that the piece needs a certain amount of stores to be able to grow new roots so the thicker ones can do it better.
Thinner, younger cuttings should root quicker in theory. the problem is that they are also transpiring more water through the leaves (and have less reserves in the stem) so they dry out quicker while there's no roots. If you can keep the humidity up so that they don't dry too quick they may still root for you. They will probably have afar better chance with a cover over them. If you still have the other end of that plastic bottle that makes a great cover for the ones in the pot. If they survive for a few weeks you can take off the screwcap to gradually accustom them to normal air again when they have some roots.
Good light is important and that means good light for plants not what we consider good light which is actually really dim for most plants. Near your south doors should be OK.

Great to see a Chinese elm bonsai outside enjoying the sun and air where it should be for a change.

BTW if you add a general location to your profile you won't have to remember to tell us each time you post and will get far better advice for your particular region.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Everyone has their own preferred method, but what has worked well for me is to protect the foliage from drying out, while providing bright indirect light (just not direct sun). Take your elm cuttings out of the water and stick them in the soil. Then take the bottom of your water bottle, poke a few small holes in it, and invert it over your cuttings so you make a mini-greenhouse. Then put it in a very bright window or somewhere it gets dappled sun. You want it to be as bright as possible without cooking your seedlings.

You want them to have a medium amount of foliage - not too much and not too little. More foliage and they will root faster, but they dry faster as well. If you keep them in a mini-greenhouse it helps. Also - you want the soil to be wet but not soaking. Don't try to grow them in a swamp

You will know the cuttings are growing roots when they start to push new buds of foliage. With Chinese elm, I get an almost 100% success rate. Same with juniper cuttings.

Also - your plastic bottle bottom will work perfectly fine, but if you want larger plastic lids, you can buy them as PET (polyethylene) deli containers. Lizard/reptile suppliers sometimes sell quite large ones that are already perforated. I bought ten and have never had to replace them. (Used as the cover... you can use any old pot for your growth media).

 

[Clorgan]

Those are pretty skinny cuttings Claire. I have much better success when they are a bit thicker. I suspect that the piece needs a certain amount of stores to be able to grow new roots so the thicker ones can do it better.
Thinner, younger cuttings should root quicker in theory. the problem is that they are also transpiring more water through the leaves (and have less reserves in the stem) so they dry out quicker while there's no roots. If you can keep the humidity up so that they don't dry too quick they may still root for you. They will probably have afar better chance with a cover over them. If you still have the other end of that plastic bottle that makes a great cover for the ones in the pot. If they survive for a few weeks you can take off the screwcap to gradually accustom them to normal air again when they have some roots.
Good light is important and that means good light for plants not what we consider good light which is actually really dim for most plants. Near your south doors should be OK.

Great to see a Chinese elm bonsai outside enjoying the sun and air where it should be for a change.

BTW if you add a general location to your profile you won't have to remember to tell us each time you post and will get far better advice for your particular region.

Great advice - thanks so much! May still have the bottle top, if not I'm sure I'll have another somewhere. Didn't want to take any thicker cuttings yet, at least until its settled and I know what I'm doing a bit more! That makes sense though that they might be too thin...no harm done I guess though! Will have a look to see if there's any potential thicker cuttings I could use

Will definitely add my location to my profile - thanks for pointing that out, very useful to know!

 

[Clorgan]

Everyone has their own preferred method, but what has worked well for me is to protect the foliage from drying out, while providing bright indirect light (just not direct sun). Take your elm cuttings out of the water and stick them in the soil. Then take the bottom of your water bottle, poke a few small holes in it, and invert it over your cuttings so you make a mini-greenhouse. Then put it in a very bright window or somewhere it gets dappled sun. You want it to be as bright as possible without cooking your seedlings.

You want them to have a medium amount of foliage - not too much and not too little. More foliage and they will root faster, but they dry faster as well. If you keep them in a mini-greenhouse it helps. Also - you want the soil to be wet but not soaking. Don't try to grow them in a swamp

You will know the cuttings are growing roots when they start to push new buds of foliage. With Chinese elm, I get an almost 100% success rate. Same with juniper cuttings.

Also - your plastic bottle bottom will work perfectly fine, but if you want larger plastic lids, you can buy them as PET (polyethylene) deli containers. Lizard/reptile suppliers sometimes sell quite large ones that are already perforated. I bought ten and have never had to replace them. (Used as the cover... you can use any old pot for your growth media).

View attachment 305578

Great advice - thanks so much! Will add the bottle base to the top now. I wasn't sure whether to take some, all or none of the leaves off the cuttings so I did a bit of a mixture. Do you have a preferred way?

I can see myself getting very into this new hobby!

 

[Clorgan]

Oh just found this pot in the recycling, could work well?

 

[Shibui]

Leaves make food that will be used to create new roots but leaves also transpire water which the stem can't supply without roots so it is a balancing act - enough leaves to feed but not too many to dehydrate. The usual recommendation is to take off 2/3 of the leaves and just leave a few at the top. Like everything with living things that's just a guide and outside that will still often work.
The muffin tray might do if you punch some drain holes in the bottom (or is that the one for the cuttings in water?). Either way, sealed to maintain high humidity will be better than open air.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

I agree you might find a bit more success with a woody stem.

I threw some in an underbed storage bin full of compostish nursery soil under a table on a westfacing wall last year and they took.

Thanks for teaching!

Sorce

 

[Clorgan]

Leaves make food that will be used to create new roots but leaves also transpire water which the stem can't supply without roots so it is a balancing act - enough leaves to feed but not too many to dehydrate. The usual recommendation is to take off 2/3 of the leaves and just leave a few at the top. Like everything with living things that's just a guide and outside that will still often work.
The muffin tray might do if you punch some drain holes in the bottom (or is that the one for the cuttings in water?). Either way, sealed to maintain high humidity will be better than open air.

Great stuff, thanks very much! Yeah was thinking the muffin case for a new lot of cuttings, hopefully a bit thicker! I've poked in some drainage holes. Popped some holes in the bottle base and put them on the first cuttings

 

[Clorgan]

Welcome to Crazy!

I agree you might find a bit more success with a woody stem.

I threw some in an underbed storage bin full of compostish nursery soil under a table on a westfacing wall last year and they took.

Thanks for teaching!

Sorce

Thanks for this, will try some thicker ones if I can find a suitable cutting! Is this sort of thickness what you mean? I'm guessing it wouldn't be wise to take this off though, as I think it's a main branch? Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm very new to this! Doesn't seem to be any thicker ones that aren't part of the main structure, if that makes sense?

Teaching is just the best job, and I love finding stuff like this to make it more enjoyable for them. They're in a pretty deprived city school so any contact with nature is great for them

 

[sorce]

, if that makes sense

Absolutely, and you are currently correct, however, since they will continue to grow, and eventually, you will cut that back to it's first 2 side branches, that can be used too! Probably in fall or before.

There will be unlignified new green growth from this spring, turning yellow and woody.

Everything older than that will at least give you enough rigidity to not flop in wet soil.

You may be able to also have the kiddos make some pinch pots from clay, perhaps have them fired by a local potter, and immerse these children directly into crazy themselves!

Then in 20 years, we'll read a post from some younging saying, "when I was x years old in x grade, my teacher, I'll never forget her, got the whole class to do a bonsai project, and I've had this elm ever since!"

How awesome that would be!

For what's it's worth, English Elm, Ulmus Minor, has a much more beautiful leaf IMO, and, by all means should allow equal or easier material.

Bless you!

Sorce

 

[Clorgan]

Absolutely, and you are currently correct, however, since they will continue to grow, and eventually, you will cut that back to it's first 2 side branches, that can be used too! Probably in fall or before.

There will be unlignified new green growth from this spring, turning yellow and woody.

Everything older than that will at least give you enough rigidity to not flop in wet soil.

You may be able to also have the kiddos make some pinch pots from clay, perhaps have them fired by a local potter, and immerse these children directly into crazy themselves!

Then in 20 years, we'll read a post from some younging saying, "when I was x years old in x grade, my teacher, I'll never forget her, got the whole class to do a bonsai project, and I've had this elm ever since!"

How awesome that would be!

For what's it's worth, English Elm, Ulmus Minor, has a much more beautiful leaf IMO, and, by all means should allow equal or easier material.

Bless you!

Sorce

Thanks so much - fantastic info there! Will look forward to doing some thicker ones later in the year all being well. In the meantime, still a few more thin ones that need a trim, no harm in trying those! Lockdown is giving me all the time in the world to experiment!

What an amazing idea and thought about a long term project for them, they would absolutely love it! Mine are very young (5/6 years old) so it may help teach them patience, which they have absolutely (unsurprisingly) not grasped yet!!!

Will try with them when lockdown is over and keep you posted!

 

[Clorgan]

OK last pester from me... For now found a couple of what I think are thicker ones, at least the bottom part, so popped them in along with some more thin ones.

If all goes well, how long (ish) should I expect before I need to review? I'm guessing put into individual pots? 2/3 months? And I'm guessing a gentle pull will tell me if roots have formed? Thanks again!

 

[Pitoon]

Pictures are very helpful so I just took these pics for you......

This is how I do all my cuttings. The bag holds in the humidity, note the small vent at the top of the bag. You need to add a vent to keep the air moving, but at the same time hold in the humidity. NEVER put the cuttings in full sun, always place them in shade to partial shade.

A good rule of thumb is to always label and date your cuttings. This way you will not forget when they were planted and if they are not rooted by a certain time you can figure out why. When you do a lot of cuttings you get an idea when you will/should get roots. The label helps remember and also not to confuse cultivars etc.....

Not all plants root by cuttings. If you are interested in a specific plant to takes cuttings from do a bit of research to see if they do root. If not you will be wasting time and materials for nothing.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Here are five cork bark elm cuttings from last year. Thinking I might put some of them in landscape to serve as air-layer stock. @Si Nguyen has a cork bark elm in his yard that grew out of the bottom of a nursery pot, and it now has an 8" trunk(!)

 

[HorseloverFat]

I really enjoy the contrasts/similarities in various cutting propagation methods... what works for some..

Because I am very “green” to this world.. I always take a decent amount of cuttings to test varying lengths, directional chops vs. internode location, placement, “pre-cutting” processes (if any), temperature..Ect.

There are thousands of variables, some aren’t even actively considered (such as certain climate ranges causing temperature shifts... also the amount of care you provide)

I feel that you have your own cutting “game”, as it were, and it us up to you to start lifting juicy brain dumbells and participating in lots of “the scientific method”-type experiments...

Gettin’ my “cutting game” swol, bro.

 

[Daniel_UK]

I am not going to add anything as the advice given to you is really helpful (1. keep humidity up, 2. keep out of strong sun, 3. use older material that is thicker and has lignified). However, I do want to say that I am also a teacher in England, so if you ever start a bonsai project for the next generation, then count me in!

 

[Clorgan]

Pictures are very helpful so I just took these pics for you......

This is how I do all my cuttings. The bag holds in the humidity, note the small vent at the top of the bag. You need to add a vent to keep the air moving, but at the same time hold in the humidity. NEVER put the cuttings in full sun, always place them in shade to partial shade.

A good rule of thumb is to always label and date your cuttings. This way you will not forget when they were planted and if they are not rooted by a certain time you can figure out why. When you do a lot of cuttings you get an idea when you will/should get roots. The label helps remember and also not to confuse cultivars etc.....

Not all plants root by cuttings. If you are interested in a specific plant to takes cuttings from do a bit of research to see if they do root. If not you will be wasting time and materials for nothing.

View attachment 305613View attachment 305614View attachment 305615

Thanks so much for the pics - really helpful to see how you've done it - they look great! Will perhaps move them from the window sill then, as it does get a lot of light!

 

[Clorgan]

Here are five cork bark elm cuttings from last year. Thinking I might put some of them in landscape to serve as air-layer stock. @Si Nguyen has a cork bark elm in his yard that grew out of the bottom of a nursery pot, and it now has an 8" trunk(!)

View attachment 305626

These look amazing!! How big were they when you planted them? Just curious!