Help with Chinese Juniper from nursery please.

Foxboro

Sapling
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Location
Florida Panhandle
USDA Zone
8b
Hello everyone, thank you for taking the time to read this. I am very new to bonsai. I purchased a small Japanese Juniper bonsai from a roadside stand a couple months ago. I've done some pruning and shaping, I even added a few rocks and some moss for some landscaping. It's still in its original little plastic bonsai pot and I'm having success keeping it alive. It did peak my interest in learning to grow and shape and train my own. I bought a little Juniper Procumbens at Lowe's, same species as the bonsai I purchased. I went a little crazy with it I think and rushed to prune it and re-pot it and landscape it before knowing much about the timing required to maintain a successful bonsai. It is now drying up and I'm afraid it will die. Lessons learned. I bought another little Procumbens from Lowe's and cleaned it up, and began shaping and pruning, I even tried my hand at a little wiring. This one has been kept in it's plastic growing pot from the store, and so far is not showing the symptoms that the other one displayed. I think I'll keep that on in its pot until I know better about when to re-pot for bonsai. Just a little backstory there.........

This brings us to my questions. I went head over heels researching and looking at all types of bonsai and it really gave me the desire to try my hand at something bigger, older and more elaborate. I went to a local small landscaping nursery to see what they may have as good bonsai stock. Well, they had ONE plant that was bigger and cooler than the rest. It had been set aside and was neglected. It was covered in dead pine needles from the trees above and littered with debris from the nursery. I also suspect that the local tom cat may have favored it for a bathroom, as I noticed an ammonia smell on it after getting it in the van. They had no other plants of this species that I saw. As it turns out, I believe it's an older Chinese Juniper. In my excitement, I rushed it home and began cutting off most of the dead material. I cleaned out the top of the pot and cut the excess rim of the pot away so that I could really get to its trunk. (three twisting, criss-crossing trunks btw). I pinched or cut most of the foliage that was growing downward and tried to find its best features. The tree definitely needs some TLC. Some of the older foliage closest to the branches is much darker than the rest, almost appearing sick but I'm not familiar with this particular species enough to know if that's normal. The man seemed to believe it had been at his nursery for quite a while. Never had been re-potted or pruned. Just set out and neglected. He did sell it to me for $20.....lol

Anyway, I had a realization that I was probably headed for disaster if I did not time the next steps properly, or even get them in the right order....lol

What I ultimately want to do is develop this to be nice bonsai I can hand down later in life. I'd like to re-pot, train it, and plan a nice little scene around it. At this stage, I'm not sure if I should prune its roots and try to re-pot it in a bonsai pot. It is quite root bound in its container. I'd like to wire it but not sure if re-potting and wiring at the same time is advised at this stage. And I'm not even sure if the plant is healthy enough for either, or if there's something I should do above all to rescue it's health, before trying anything else.

Should I re-pot it and root prune to help invigorate the tree? Should I leave it in the pot and wire it till next spring? Am I missing something altogether??? LOL


I have included photos and all the information I can think of. If you need more specific information or more photos in order to assist me, please ask and I will answer or provide everything to the best of my limited knowledge. Thank you all for taking the time, any help is greatly appreciated!!

Also, if anyone can help me guesstimate the tree's age I would be grateful!

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Welcome!

While reading that I thought you had done something horrific and almost killed it...:eek: Nice tree!

Everybody will probably tell you the same thing, study this tree and do very little in the beginning and do a lot of reading in the meantime. Learn how to care for it through all seasons (even though you're in the panhandle of Florida), keep it watered and fertilized. Though I think any repotting should be done in summer for junipers, I would worry more about keeping it alive right now.

Good luck!
 
Eventually you're going to want foliage and branches closer to the main trunks, that's going to take time to chase foliage back that far (years). If you're trying to develop better structure you probably don't want to cram it in a bonsai pot yet, that will slow it's growth down. You'll want to "grow it out" meaning put it in a bigger pot or in the ground. You're probably fine with wiring now though.

I've killed many junipers, probably all from pruning too many roots and at the wrong time of year. I don't really keep junipers anymore, so my advice may not be the best but someone else will chime in I'm sure.
 
Ok thank you. I'll probably end up getting a bigger pot for it and try to nurse it for another season and see how it does.
 
Should I re-pot it and root prune to help invigorate the tree?

Basically the answer is no unless you are having a drainage problem - then a very gentle slip pot would most likely go ok for you. Most Juniper don't get a repot after they are in a bonsai type pot until there is literally no room in the pot anymore 5, 7, even 10 years.
If that soil drains well and does not ever totally dry out I strongly recommend to leave it in the pot for an entire season - resist a lot of work until it is established and growing good for you. General maintenance like thinning foliage is enough this year.
Decent find btw, I would not mind working that one ;)

Grimmy
 
I'm bout to go back to work...

But I like it!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 
Welcome to the forum. Since I live in the Panhandle as well I'll help in any way I can. The Grimmster's advice is spot on. The "general" rule is "one insult per year" with junipers. Another words, repot it, wait a year and prune it or vice versa. However, I find that here in the Panhandle we can shorten the interval with many juniper species. Just remember, there are two agricultural zones in the panhandle and that does make a difference.
 
Basically the answer is no unless you are having a drainage problem - then a very gentle slip pot would most likely go ok for you. Most Juniper don't get a repot after they are in a bonsai type pot until there is literally no room in the pot anymore 5, 7, even 10 years.
If that soil drains well and does not ever totally dry out I strongly recommend to leave it in the pot for an entire season - resist a lot of work until it is established and growing good for you. General maintenance like thinning foliage is enough this year.
Decent find btw, I would not mind working that one ;)

Grimmy
Thank you. I thought it was a pretty cool tree with an interesting shape. There's a few branches with nearly nothing on them that I think would make great Jin branches eventually. It is severely root bound in its current pot. Some are creeping out of the drain holes. Would it be ok to get a slightly larger pot and just slide the current mass out and set in a new pot with a bit more room and new soil without disturbing the current root ball soil mass?
 
Welcome to the forum. Since I live in the Panhandle as well I'll help in any way I can. The Grimmster's advice is spot on. The "general" rule is "one insult per year" with junipers. Another words, repot it, wait a year and prune it or vice versa. However, I find that here in the Panhandle we can shorten the interval with many juniper species. Just remember, there are two agricultural zones in the panhandle and that does make a difference.
Ok. I have removed all dead foliage or discolored shoots and anything that hung down. Is that insult enough to leave it in its current soil? Lol.
 
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Is that insult enough to leave it in its current soil? Lol.

You did good so far BUT you did not read or possibly understand my post and that is OK being anxious starting out ;)

I mentioned if you water it and it drains good DO NOT repot it. There is no problem having a Juniper actually raise itself out of a pot being root bound and is the only reason I would repot one. Experts with Juniper will argue to get it into Bonsai substrate ASAP - not good advice if you are not an expert. That process will take you 2 - 4 years when you are ready... Serious... It is not a easy process for people that do not know the exact details and timing - you will kill it, hands down until you "get it".
You did very good cleaning out all of the crap and airing out(allowing air and sun at the base. Now stop - let it recover, do light maintenance while it recovers and enjoy - if you want to experiment do it on a far less expensive one of the same type please or send it to me for proper care :oops:

Grimmy
 
You did good so far BUT you did not read or possibly understand my post and that is OK being anxious starting out ;)

I mentioned if you water it and it drains good DO NOT repot it. There is no problem having a Juniper actually raise itself out of a pot being root bound and is the only reason I would repot one. Experts with Juniper will argue to get it into Bonsai substrate ASAP - not good advice if you are not an expert. That process will take you 2 - 4 years when you are ready... Serious... It is not a easy process for people that do not know the exact details and timing - you will kill it, hands down until you "get it".
You did very good cleaning out all of the crap and airing out(allowing air and sun at the base. Now stop - let it recover, do light maintenance while it recovers and enjoy - if you want to experiment do it on a far less expensive one of the same type please or send it to me for proper care :oops:

Grimmy
Ahhh yes, I misunderstood. Still getting used to this forum format as well. It does seem to drain pretty well. I can see it seeping out the bottom as I water. I believe it's in some chunky soil with larger pieces of bark and such instead of dense soil. It looks pretty good after the cleanup and looks great out on my back porch as it is so I'll do as stated and just nurse it back to health. I'll just set that pot down inside a heavier one so it doesn't tip during the storms.

Is there a fertilizer you'd suggest for this stage? Should I leave it in full sun?

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to help out, and thank you for the encouragement. I've visited a couple other forums before and most people seem to hate the newbies for coming in and asking dumb questions. I have no local bonsai resources, so I'm stuck with the internet and I'm finding so many contradictory bits of information and it's become overwhelming. Cheers!
 
Welcome to the forum. Since I live in the Panhandle as well I'll help in any way I can. The Grimmster's advice is spot on. The "general" rule is "one insult per year" with junipers. Another words, repot it, wait a year and prune it or vice versa. However, I find that here in the Panhandle we can shorten the interval with many juniper species. Just remember, there are two agricultural zones in the panhandle and that does make a difference.
Im in the Fort Walton area, are you anywhere near there?
 
I'm in Panama City but I'm a member of the Fort Walton Beach Bonsai Society. Tomorrow is our Annual Auction. You should come as there will be deals to be had.
Wow I had no idea there was a gathering here. I'll have to look that up and join. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to make it tomorrow. I've got family in town and we're taking the boat out... lol. How often and where do you meet? I'd be interested in learning much more.
 
Wow I had no idea there was a gathering here. I'll have to look that up and join. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to make it tomorrow. I've got family in town and we're taking the boat out... lol. How often and where do you meet? I'd be interested in learning much more.
This should help http://www.bonsai-fwb.com/
 
Is there a fertilizer you'd suggest for this stage? Should I leave it in full sun?

I use Jacks on everything except nitrogen fixing plants such as Wisteria, Goji Berry, Tamarind and a few others as they don't need nitrogen. On your Juniper I would apply it normal solution the first year every seven days 20 to 30 minutes after watering. Juniper like full sun but I am not certain about your area. Could be tough as they don't so well if they dry out. Perhaps @Vin could advise.

Jacks 202020 w micro.jpg

Grimmy
 
I use Jacks on everything except nitrogen fixing plants such as Wisteria, Goji Berry, Tamarind and a few others as they don't need nitrogen. On your Juniper I would apply it normal solution the first year every seven days 20 to 30 minutes after watering. Juniper like full sun but I am not certain about your area. Could be tough as they don't so well if they dry out. Perhaps @Vin could advise.

View attachment 148781

Grimmy
Thank you, I'll give that a shot!
 
Sorry to return so late!

, if anyone can help me guesstimate the tree's age I would be grateful!

I would guess it to be around 20-30 years old...
But it doesn't matter if it's 3....
Make it look old as hell and you win!

I used to kill Procumbins Nana a lot..
Join my club...we don't eff with that S no more...
NomoNana.org!

This.."unhealthy" "neglected" tree will grow better for you than anana.

Grim and Vin seem to have you steered forward.
Good. Get to that meeting if you can!

Health dependent.....
I'd look into eliminating a trunk a year until you can leave the one you've isolated as your sexiest literati..ish tree.

Awesome grab!

Sorce
 
Sorry to return so late!



I would guess it to be around 20-30 years old...
But it doesn't matter if it's 3....
Make it look old as hell and you win!

I used to kill Procumbins Nana a lot..
Join my club...we don't eff with that S no more...
NomoNana.org!

This.."unhealthy" "neglected" tree will grow better for you than anana.

Grim and Vin seem to have you steered forward.
Good. Get to that meeting if you can!

Health dependent.....
I'd look into eliminating a trunk a year until you can leave the one you've isolated as your sexiest literati..ish tree.

Awesome grab!

Sorce
Thanks! So, no Nanas eh??? Lol. I just bought two 12 year old field grown Nanas from a bonsai nursery I found about an hour and a half away from here. I've never seen any with this much mature foliage. Almost all of it is mature. Nice thick trunks. Need a lot of cleaning first before I can really see what I'm working with


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The other one:

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