Help to shaping a maple

[bbk]

Which mean just buy a better tree to begin with?

Think I'm gonna try making this acceptable and then I can buy a better looking tree later on.

Perhaps! You are like everyone else. All beginners once. Some believe you should only aim for the best. Some like myself believe whatever gives you pleasure.

But you have started the process of learning and will probably make that drastic cut whether in this tree or on another.

I just think it has the bones to make something really nice no matter which way you go.

 

[bbk]

May I ask what benefit I get by the diagonal cut? More smooth transition?

Yea.

Tree would look something like this

 

[Shibui]

May I ask what benefit I get by the diagonal cut? More smooth transition?

Smooth transition from thick to thin is the main reason I make diagonal cuts at branches. We want the finished product to look natural and attractive. Sudden changes interrupt the visual flow so not attractive.

 

[penumbra]

BTW, you shouldn't be doing any of this work now, if you're in the Northern hemisphere (please fill in you geographic location in your profile. It helps us give accurate advice, since seasons play an important role with what you do and when you do it) Work like you're thinking about should be done in the early spring.

I am with ^^^ on this. I would not give any advice at all unless I see a location in your profile. In fact, I hardly read any posts that do not have a location in the profile because you can't possibly be getting the correct info and I certainly don't want to add to the confusion.

 

[Skovm4nd]

I am with ^^^ on this. I would not give any advice at all unless I see a location in your profile. In fact, I hardly read any posts that do not have a location in the profile because you can't possibly be getting the correct info and I certainly don't want to add to the confusion.

Thansk, just filled out the informations now

 

[Kodama]

Hmm.. just my 2 cents...I agree chop the upper too thick branch on right side. Maybe keep the height but focus on thickening lower branches first. Redirect the topiary energy into those letting them run and then move up the tree with thinnest branches at top.

 

[Skovm4nd]

I love the broom style.
If I wanted to create a tree in that style would I then make a straight cut like shown on the picture down below?

And if the answer is yes, how do I then avoid local swelling again?

 

[Shibui]

For broom style there's a few spots you could chop as JM sprout new shoots so well.

Avoid local swelling by restricting new branches to just 2 at any point. You need to rub off any extra buds as soon as possible and continue to do so for years.
Another strategy is to chop flat, as usual, then wait for 2 branches to grow strong. Then make V cut into the trunk between those branches. V cut allows swelling to happen inside as well as outside the two new branches.

 

[Skovm4nd]

For broom style there's a few spots you could chop as JM sprout new shoots so well.

Avoid local swelling by restricting new branches to just 2 at any point. You need to rub off any extra buds as soon as possible and continue to do so for years.
Another strategy is to chop flat, as usual, then wait for 2 branches to grow strong. Then make V cut into the trunk between those branches. V cut allows swelling to happen inside as well as outside the two new branches.

May I ask what spot you would use? I'm thinking I might should go lower than shown on my last picture for a shorter trunk and a more realistic look.

I also saw a post about using a horse clamp and making a horizontal cut but I have no idea if that's a good strategy.

 

[Skovm4nd]

For broom style there's a few spots you could chop as JM sprout new shoots so well.

Avoid local swelling by restricting new branches to just 2 at any point. You need to rub off any extra buds as soon as possible and continue to do so for years.
Another strategy is to chop flat, as usual, then wait for 2 branches to grow strong. Then make V cut into the trunk between those branches. V cut allows swelling to happen inside as well as outside the two new branches.

Furthermore I read that the broom style is one of the most difficult styles to make right, so maybe I should drop my idea again as I might never make a convenient tree after all.

 

[Paradox]

IMO, @Shibui's suggested cut at the blue line would probably make for the best tree long term. This little maple has a pretty good start already. Not sure it would make a great broom to be honest. Yes brooms are hard to get right and I think there are other species that make better ones than maples, IMO.

 

[Skovm4nd]

IMO, @Shibui's suggested cut at the blue line would probably make for the best tree long term. This little maple has a pretty good start already. Not sure it would make a great broom to be honest. Yes brooms are hard to get right and I think there are other species that make better ones than maples, IMO.

Probably gonna skip the broom style and follow you guys advice then and cut it at the blue line.

 

[Shibui]

Broom looks easy but good broom is very prescriptive so getting it right can be difficult.
Where to chop depends on many variables so difficult to pick a spot unless we can see the tree in person. Nebari is a big part of good broom and we can't see any surface roots in any pics so far. No point making guesses without full info.
Generally chop at around 1/3 of desired height for either broom or informal upright but even that will vary depending on individual taste and dimensions.
It would be possible to chop above the thick branch and also chop the thick branch. There's a good chance for new shoots from the branch collar to give a second sub-trunk but only if cut above the blue line to preserve the right side branch collar with its potential buds.

I looked for examples in my photos files of trees from chops like shown but can't find any good ones in my files so you'll just have to go blind on advice if you choose to follow.

 

[BobbyLane]

couple examples of flat n slanted chops

 

[dbonsaiw]

One of the difficulties for beginners is that the actions we take now are directed at a finished tree we have in mind, and if we don't know what we want or how to get there, it is difficult to understand what one should be doing now. My two cents is to first get an idea of the types of trees you like and would enjoy developing, formulate an idea of what you want this tree to look like and get going. Step 1 is how tall do you want the tree to be? Then determine the ration of height of the tree to base diameter that you like - I like 1:6/1:8 others have different opinions. So if you want a 2 foot tree and a 1:6 ratio, the base will need to be 4 inches wide - that's a large tree. If the base of your tree isn't 4 inches, you will need to grow this out for some time to get there.

What style are you going for? How much taper? How much movement? As folks have already mentioned, this development can take many years depending on your goal and what you start with.

But you seem to have hit the nail on the head with an earlier comment - perhaps start with something that requires less development time.

My other 2 cents is that you will only learn so much from reading and will need to get your hands dirty and ultimately butcher and kill trees. Think of this tree like your first girlfriend. You don't have to marry her, just have a good time and learn. If this is your first tree, chances are that the costs of your learning is damage to the tree. Welcome to bonsai. No way to make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

 

[Skovm4nd]

One of the difficulties for beginners is that the actions we take now are directed at a finished tree we have in mind, and if we don't know what we want or how to get there, it is difficult to understand what one should be doing now. My two cents is to first get an idea of the types of trees you like and would enjoy developing, formulate an idea of what you want this tree to look like and get going. Step 1 is how tall do you want the tree to be? Then determine the ration of height of the tree to base diameter that you like - I like 1:6/1:8 others have different opinions. So if you want a 2 foot tree and a 1:6 ratio, the base will need to be 4 inches wide - that's a large tree. If the base of your tree isn't 4 inches, you will need to grow this out for some time to get there.

What style are you going for? How much taper? How much movement? As folks have already mentioned, this development can take many years depending on your goal and what you start with.

But you seem to have hit the nail on the head with an earlier comment - perhaps start with something that requires less development time.

My other 2 cents is that you will only learn so much from reading and will need to get your hands dirty and ultimately butcher and kill trees. Think of this tree like your first girlfriend. You don't have to marry her, just have a good time and learn. If this is your first tree, chances are that the costs of your learning is damage to the tree. Welcome to bonsai. No way to make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

Thank you very much. I think I need to spend the winter thinking about what to do. I don't need it to be perfect, just want a nice basic bonsai.

 

[Skovm4nd]

Here is what it looks like without leaves. Best suggestion is still to make a diagonal cut before the thick branch?

 

[Juanmi]

Well, I have a similar suggestion, but it would take a bit more time to develop.

I though if you cut as suggested the tree would have only movement to the left (unless you change it by wiring, but chances are that it would look unnatural)


Whereas if you cut a bit lower, before that thin branch, the movement would be more balanced in my opinion

 

[Shibui]

Suggestions are getting back to longer term development for this tree. Trunk chops to lower, thin branches will mean years of regrow to form a new trunk , branches and apex.

Waiting up to 10 years would be too long, so I'm alright with the trunk not being perfectly fat.

Given you say you'll be happy with a les impressive tree to save time you should also consider just leaving the trunk intact and just tinning out the massed shoots at the apex and that thick branch. That should give a tree shape almost immediately and still allows any of the other options should you change your mind.
Try something like this:

Leave just 2 of the shoots at apex and on the thick branch, cutting so as to relieve the thickened ends if possible.
It won't be an award winning bonsai but will give a tolerable JM bonsai in 1 or 2 years IMHO.

 

[Skovm4nd]

Suggestions are getting back to longer term development for this tree. Trunk chops to lower, thin branches will mean years of regrow to form a new trunk , branches and apex.

Given you say you'll be happy with a les impressive tree to save time you should also consider just leaving the trunk intact and just tinning out the massed shoots at the apex and that thick branch. That should give a tree shape almost immediately and still allows any of the other options should you change your mind.
Try something like this:
View attachment 482760
Leave just 2 of the shoots at apex and on the thick branch, cutting so as to relieve the thickened ends if possible.
It won't be an award winning bonsai but will give a tolerable JM bonsai in 1 or 2 years IMHO.

Actually thinking about going with your suggestion. It won't be the perfect tree anyways because of my lack of experience.