Help styling Juniper with beautiful trunk

[SmallTreeGuy]

Hello everyone!

I’m in Texas, zone 8a. I’ve had this Parson’s juniper for about 2 years I I’ve let it recover for a couple of growing seasons, as I had given it a few pretty good insults since I bought it from nursery stock. (ie. changing potting angle, working roots and getting the king whips cut back to see clearer what I was looking at The foliage is a little paler because it’s a Parsonii but it’s been growing pretty vigorous and I’d like to get some advice on branch selection for what to keep and what to cut.

The second picture is what I’ve chosen as the front and plan on doing a cascade that resembles kind of a windswept style but not entirely.

I’m having issues determining what branches to keep and what branches to cut. I tried to attach pictures showing the mess of branching it has so it would be clearer to see. I hope the pics are ok.

Would love any suggestions and maybe even with some marks on any of the pictures to illustrate what you’re indicating better. The help would be immensely appreciated as I’ve been quite stumped with this tree since I let it sit to recover. Thanks all!

 

[Esolin]

Beautiful tree! It has gotten leggy though, with all the green way out on the ends of long branches. That makes it hard to style well, especially since you can't just cut all the green off a juniper branch and expect the branch to survive. I feel like the better first step would be to slowly push the foliage growth back inward. I don't know Parson's junipers, so I don't know how well they back bud. If you feed it like crazy and really pump up its health and nutrient flow, it might back bud near the bases of your branches. Once you have back buds, you could then slowly start shortening the branches to encourage a shift in the plant's energy allocation until it's more dense and bushy. It will be easier to style then.

Or you could graft some new branches nearer in to the trunk. Grafting would give you the option to change out the Parson's foliage for something you like better, and honestly might be faster than feeding and hoping for back budding in the 'right' places. If it were mine, I'd probably find someone to help me graft it with kishu or itoigawa.

I feel like it would look awesome if you can bring the foliage back more in to this range:

 

[Tieball]

Long and leggy branches. I would leave the tree in the current pot without cutting any roots yet. I would begin a methodical process of pruning all of those branches leaving some green on each branch. The tree should back bud and form new branching on the branches closer to the trunk. It may be yet this season. It could take some time into next season to form solid new growth.

I'd probably add about 1/2” to 3/4” of a good draining substrate to cool the roots down some with your Dallas heat. Keep the tree well watered….but not soggy wet.

What @Esolin indicated for a cascade direction in the drawing is quite possible. I’m neutral on that. I don’t see a fabulous cascade. I’d stay more upright. I see the potential of a high-country juniper that’s struggled to live but is making growth happen now with a rainy season (you’re watering). I also don’t see a windswept in the tree. But, it is your tree. So your choice of direction counts the most.

I would work on compressing the foliage closer to the trunk. Get that growth happening. And then…take a closer look at a style and tree image you'd like to see happen when that full growth is realized.

You’re likely itching to style and do something. Anything. Growing out more is still a good activity to embrace.

 

[Tieball]

I say wait on styling because to get better branches, fuller-looking branches, you have to do a lot of pruning. Some branches may not back bud. Most will do just fine. The tree and nature will make choices for you too. I wouldn’t style it now because you may have very different choices in the future.

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

Beautiful tree! It has gotten leggy though, with all the green way out on the ends of long branches. That makes it hard to style well, especially since you can't just cut all the green off a juniper branch and expect the branch to survive. I feel like the better first step would be to slowly push the foliage growth back inward. I don't know Parson's junipers, so I don't know how well they back bud. If you feed it like crazy and really pump up its health and nutrient flow, it might back bud near the bases of your branches. Once you have back buds, you could then slowly start shortening the branches to encourage a shift in the plant's energy allocation until it's more dense and bushy. It will be easier to style then.

Or you could graft some new branches nearer in to the trunk. Grafting would give you the option to change out the Parson's foliage for something you like better, and honestly might be faster than feeding and hoping for back budding in the 'right' places. If it were mine, I'd probably find someone to help me graft it with kishu or itoigawa.

I feel like it would look awesome if you can bring the foliage back more in to this range:
View attachment 498568

Thank you so much for the info

Long and leggy branches. I would leave the tree in the current pot without cutting any roots yet. I would begin a methodical process of pruning all of those branches leaving some green on each branch. The tree should back bud and form new branching on the branches closer to the trunk. It may be yet this season. It could take some time into next season to form solid new growth.

I'd probably add about 1/2” to 3/4” of a good draining substrate to cool the roots down some with your Dallas heat. Keep the tree well watered….but not soggy wet.

What @Esolin indicated for a cascade direction in the drawing is quite possible. I’m neutral on that. I don’t see a fabulous cascade. I’d stay more upright. I see the potential of a high-country juniper that’s struggled to live but is making growth happen now with a rainy season (you’re watering). I also don’t see a windswept in the tree. But, it is your tree. So your choice of direction counts the most.

I would work on compressing the foliage closer to the trunk. Get that growth happening. And then…take a closer look at a style and tree image you'd like to see happen when that full growth is realized.

You’re likely itching to style and do something. Anything. Growing out more is still a good activity to embrace.

I have some other trees that I’m playing with but I am still itching to style this one. Lol. But, I’d rather get this one into good enough shape to style and do it right so I’ll continue to do some care and preparation for ideal styling conditions.

I’ll definitely consider grafting and reaching out to my local bonsai society to see if I can get someone to help me with it before pruning back. I definitely would prefer itoigawa foliage as I’ve heard and observed that Parsonii foliage is hard to deal with and doesn’t compact well. The foliage has always seemed super “leggy” apart from the branching.

I’m sure my intentions with styling will change as the branches start back budding toward the trunk after some pruning if that’s the direction I decide. (I hope they will!)

One question about pruning…Should I attempt to hard prune all of the leggy branches in one go or should I do it over the course of a couple growing seasons? I know I need to do a big push to get these branches to backbud, but since junipers hold all the energy in the foliage, I’m unsure of how much to cut at one time.

Thanks everyone from preventing me from throwing some wire on and making some bad design decisions just because I wanna style it. Patience and reaching out has been key for me to stay on a good path with this tree! I really value all of your replies and will take into account grafting options and pruning options. I’m gonna stay patient!

Cheers

 

[Esolin]

I’ll definitely consider grafting and reaching out to my local bonsai society to see if I can get someone to help me with it before pruning back. I definitely would prefer itoigawa foliage as I’ve heard and observed that Parsonii foliage is hard to deal with and doesn’t compact well. The foliage has always seemed super “leggy” apart from the branching.

How much you can safely take off depends a lot on the health of the tree. The strength of a juniper is generally represented by the size of its foliage mass. A juniper that's super thick and busy with foliage has a lot of energy stored up and can absorb the stress of a heavy prune during the growing season. A tree that's weak and doesn't have a lot of foliage or growing momentum with only suffer if it loses any of what little it has. Ryan Neil advocates that the best way to get backbudding on conifers is not to trim them like you would with deciduous material, but to leave them alone and feed them like crazy. When a conifer has an abundance of resources and 'money to burn' so to speak, it backbuds.

You say this tree's been worked hard in the two years you've had it, but is still fairly vigorous. It's probably just starting to rebuild its store of energy after the repot. The more foliage, the faster new roots will grow. Until this tree is much shaggier, I'd be cautious about removing too much at once, especially in the dead heat of summer. I'd maybe nip off the tufts growing right on the ends of the longest branches to redistribute some of the auxin production and encourage shoots further down to grow more. But I'd probably just baby it for one more growing cycle, feed it like crazy when temps cool in the Fall, then evaluate and trim branches in the Spring + continue feeding for new growth. Yeah, that requires more boring waiting, but imo it's better to be patient and only lose one year to caution, than to rush and lose 3 or 4 years to nursing a tree back from the brink.

 

[Tieball]

@SmallTreeGuy there are some excellent points brought to the discussion by @Esolin. The Southern California climate, and I recognize that it is a bit different than your climate, is close to your weather pattern, especially the heat trends. The Juniper tree you have is in need of some health improvements. I would work on the health of your tree before any large scale pruning or any grafting. There will be plenty of time in the future for directional treatments. Pruning and grafting both need a good healthy tree for a foundation. Keep this tree in a space for special treatment and growth….then, when new growth is stabilized, tackle directional strategies.

In the meantime your itchy-for-work-on-the-tree fingers can take on the development of grafting material if that’s a path needed. Prepare and take on the research for a tree style that interests you and a direction that can realistically be accomplished with the structural bones you have on the tree. This satisfies my desire to do something, anything, that resembles progress with a tree. I can be patient.

I think that you will find natural pruning points as the tree grows. Not as a cascade. Not as a windswept. Those are my views though. I study the photos now and see many pruning points already. The tree, in my view, is just not ready yet. Maybe I’m overly cautious. Maybe not. I would, however, add some substrate soil to the current growing pot to help facilitate added root development.

I like trees where my mission is a return to health. You have an excellent tree in the foundation-building stage.

 

[sorce]

I see, trying to get all these branches to have green closer to the trunk, as a fool's errand.

I reckon it's easier with material like this, to pick one good branch as an extension of the trunk, and commit to the easier task of keeping the green close to that branch, as you thicken it to become the trunk extension.

There is a taper bonus to this mission as well.

I wouldn't pick this one, since it's on the inside of a curve and is so low you lose a lot of good movement further out.


And though the bend on this looks nice, the 90degree exit is whack.


Not sure what that leaves for options, but a longer, more tapered trunk never hurt.

As you gain vigour, I would remove these 2 branches. Maybe one in Spring 24. Maybe another a year later, or earlier if health permits.

This may promote budding from the cut collars, which can give you more options. Longer time line, but much better options. And new growth is always easier to keep close than "chasing back" old growth.

It will pay to figure wether you want it, or more accurately, wether the most efficient design will come as upright or cascade, soon.
As the longer it is in that pot, the less successful a move to a more shallow pot for an upright tree will become.

Sorce

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

How much you can safely take off depends a lot on the health of the tree. The strength of a juniper is generally represented by the size of its foliage mass. A juniper that's super thick and busy with foliage has a lot of energy stored up and can absorb the stress of a heavy prune during the growing season. A tree that's weak and doesn't have a lot of foliage or growing momentum with only suffer if it loses any of what little it has. Ryan Neil advocates that the best way to get backbudding on conifers is not to trim them like you would with deciduous material, but to leave them alone and feed them like crazy. When a conifer has an abundance of resources and 'money to burn' so to speak, it backbuds.

You say this tree's been worked hard in the two years you've had it, but is still fairly vigorous. It's probably just starting to rebuild its store of energy after the repot. The more foliage, the faster new roots will grow. Until this tree is much shaggier, I'd be cautious about removing too much at once, especially in the dead heat of summer. I'd maybe nip off the tufts growing right on the ends of the longest branches to redistribute some of the auxin production and encourage shoots further down to grow more. But I'd probably just baby it for one more growing cycle, feed it like crazy when temps cool in the Fall, then evaluate and trim branches in the Spring + continue feeding for new growth. Yeah, that requires more boring waiting, but imo it's better to be patient and only lose one year to caution, than to rush and lose 3 or 4 years to nursing a tree back from the brink.

Thanks! All that sounds great to me! I’ll be patient. I want to really do right by this tree.

Gonna just keep feeding it and making sure it gets the care it needs to be in a better position to be styled.

Cheers

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

@SmallTreeGuy there are some excellent points brought to the discussion by @Esolin. The Southern California climate, and I recognize that it is a bit different than your climate, is close to your weather pattern, especially the heat trends. The Juniper tree you have is in need of some health improvements. I would work on the health of your tree before any large scale pruning or any grafting. There will be plenty of time in the future for directional treatments. Pruning and grafting both need a good healthy tree for a foundation. Keep this tree in a space for special treatment and growth….then, when new growth is stabilized, tackle directional strategies.

In the meantime your itchy-for-work-on-the-tree fingers can take on the development of grafting material if that’s a path needed. Prepare and take on the research for a tree style that interests you and a direction that can realistically be accomplished with the structural bones you have on the tree. This satisfies my desire to do something, anything, that resembles progress with a tree. I can be patient.

I think that you will find natural pruning points as the tree grows. Not as a cascade. Not as a windswept. Those are my views though. I study the photos now and see many pruning points already. The tree, in my view, is just not ready yet. Maybe I’m overly cautious. Maybe not. I would, however, add some substrate soil to the current growing pot to help facilitate added root development.

I like trees where my mission is a return to health. You have an excellent tree in the foundation-building stage.

Thanks for the input and I really agree with you on letting this tree gain some more vigor and get back to a good point of healthy stasis!

I’m gonna be patient and take my time and just keep babying this one until the foliage gets thicker. I’m probably going to take the grafting route but now I wanna make sure it’s healthiest for that as well.

Cheers

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

I see, trying to get all these branches to have green closer to the trunk, as a fool's errand.

I reckon it's easier with material like this, to pick one good branch as an extension of the trunk, and commit to the easier task of keeping the green close to that branch, as you thicken it to become the trunk extension.

There is a taper bonus to this mission as well.

I wouldn't pick this one, since it's on the inside of a curve and is so low you lose a lot of good movement further out.
View attachment 498648

And though the bend on this looks nice, the 90degree exit is whack.
View attachment 498649

Not sure what that leaves for options, but a longer, more tapered trunk never hurt.

As you gain vigour, I would remove these 2 branches. Maybe one in Spring 24. Maybe another a year later, or earlier if health permits.

This may promote budding from the cut collars, which can give you more options. Longer time line, but much better options. And new growth is always easier to keep close than "chasing back" old growth.

It will pay to figure wether you want it, or more accurately, wether the most efficient design will come as upright or cascade, soon.
As the longer it is in that pot, the less successful a move to a more shallow pot for an upright tree will become.

Sorce

Thanks Sorce. Oh, and 90 degree exit has been bothering me too! (You’re talking about the branch coming out of the trunk at the top and curving to the right, correct?)

I’m gonna take a good hard think about this and check out all my options.

On the second mark-up you posted, I think I might be a little confused on what you mean to cut in that one. Is it showing to cut that 90 degree curved branch and cutting the tail of the trunk off from that point to the tip?

 

[Tieball]

While you’re thinking, looking closely and taking photos. I try to take a lot of photos of many different sides, even non-preferred sides. The photo shows exactly what you really have. Sometimes the eyes want to auto-correct faults and flaws. And the photos are helpful for determining next steps over the winter months (well, my winters anyway).

I’m not certain what Dallas has for winter anymore. I was only there mostly in summer months. I remember that 1/4” of snow created a traffic nightmare and school closings. Seemed to me that drivers knew “fast” and “faster”. And, with light coating of oil buildup on the roads, a dusting of snow or a sudden rain shower paralyzed traffic.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Please consider changing angle of tree based on rootage. Roots look bad as presently exposed. New angle helps determine ensuing style. Should be first step.

 

[AshleyMammal]

@Potawatomi13 angle change is a great idea, and judging by those exposed roots it'd be an easy one to carry out too. Excuse my very rough sketch but this looks good to me:

 

[sorce]

90 degree

That mark was just for marking the 90, not a cut, sorry, I should have used a different color!

Sorce

 

[PaulH]

Absolutely needs to be grafted. Find some kishu or itoigawa whips in small pots and ask at your club for help with approach grafting. Its actually pretty easy and can be done mostly any time of year. In my opinion thats the only way to make this into a bonsai.

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

That mark was just for marking the 90, not a cut, sorry, I should have used a different color!

Sorce

Totally cool! I figured there was something else to the markup! Lol

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

Absolutely needs to be grafted. Find some kishu or itoigawa whips in small pots and ask at your club for help with approach grafting. It’s actually pretty easy and can be done mostly any time of year. In my opinion thats the only way to make this into a bonsai.

I think that’s the route I’m going to take. Thank you!

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

While you’re thinking, looking closely and taking photos. I try to take a lot of photos of many different sides, even non-preferred sides. The photo shows exactly what you really have. Sometimes the eyes want to auto-correct faults and flaws. And the photos are helpful for determining next steps over the winter months (well, my winters anyway).

I’m not certain what Dallas has for winter anymore. I was only there mostly in summer months. I remember that 1/4” of snow created a traffic nightmare and school closings. Seemed to me that drivers knew “fast” and “faster”. And, with light coating of oil buildup on the roads, a dusting of snow or a sudden rain shower paralyzed traffic.

I’ll definitely do that. I’m pretty sure I’m going to get help at the Dallas bonsai society doing some approach grafting when I have more time,

Also, that sounds about right here in Dallas. Scorching heat in the triple digits right now. I have 4 massive multi trunk crepes I’m carefully digging out of my front yard right now for collection. Just for time’s sake in general, I might be babying this Juniper for another year before starting the grafting process. We’ll see. This heat and these myrtles want to kill me but I’ve wanted them for so long I’m determined to get them out now that we are having landscaping put in.