Help Repotting 70+ Year Old Liquid Amber (Sweetgum)

Sweetyness

Seedling
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Location
Pasadena, CA (Los Angeles County)
So excited to find this forum! Before I ask for advice, I would like to share the history of this tree, and a little about my experience with Bonsai. Spring of 2021 I was gifted a large Liquid Amber bonsai tree from my beloved cousin living in Newport Beach, CA. She passed away that Sept., making the tree even more dear to me. She had owned it for 37 years (told to be 35+ years from reputable bonsai nursery when purchased), and I have admired it for years. Her gift to me included caring for it to ensure its longevity.

Most of my experience was in the 1980's when I purchased and dug up and created several trees and a mini maple forest. After the tragedy of losing them all while on vacation during hot weather and proper watering not performed (drip watering was just being introduced) I did not get back into the practice until about 5 years ago. I have never owned a tree as spectacular as I think this tree is.

When I received the tree I was told it was overdue for a repotting- her husband had health issues and was not able to for at least 3 years. Its pot is 19.5” square on outside, 15.5” on the inside. The soil was so compact around the tree I could not even stick a drip spike into it. It had not been trimmed properly for a long time, and the leaves were much larger than previous. Nothing that cannot be fixed. 😊

I left the tree as is through 2021 summer, fall colors and winter. It had no trouble acclimating to the inland warmer temperatures of Pasadena, CA, from its previous home by the beach. (Positioned to have afternoon shade.) Once it started to bud out this month, I set to the task of repotting. This past Sunday, after a very long time cutting the roots around the edges of the root ball to remove from the pot (trying not to damage the pot), my garden helper and I were able to finally pull it out. By then it was dark, and I needed to get new soil from our Bonsai nursery on Monday (after work). Today I started to remove the soil from around the roots- oh my! I have never seen such large pot-bound roots before. I needed to take an axe to the large ones. Then I started getting nervous that I might chop them to the point of putting the tree in shock and am so afraid of losing it! I stopped- So to the experts I am turning!

The first photo is the tree in 2015, next 2 are 2019/20 in Newport beach yard. (The base pedestal is very heavy limestone with a teak inner table.) And the tree being loaded up by movers to travel to my home (to show size).
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Next photos show cutting the roots so the tree can be removed, the 1" thick root pad from inside of the pot once removed, and the root ball.
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Now comes the (not so) fun part! Removing the soil from the roots- finding HUGE roots grown and twisted around inside the pot. So I got the axe- but once I cut the one large one, I saw there were more large ones, and trying to remove any dirt was not easy! I know I need to make room for new root growth- but need guidance on how much I need to leave so as not to distress too much, and any easier ways to break apart the root mass to see what is going on. After loosening what I could from this one section I used water to removed loose soil and the heavy pot I would like to reuse for it.
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This is an urgent request as right now the tree is lying as you see it on its side elevated (to protect the branches) with a wet thick quilt on it (watering twice a day to keep wet). I cut back quite a bit of the height and width of branches- but know more is needed. (Makes me cringe...LOL). I need to get it repotted ASAP. but want to make sure I do it right. I have never seen such tight roots that I cannot tell what is where or anything! :) Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you! Jana
 
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I'm no expert myself but you can always place it into a larger container than it was in. Especially while you are trying to develop it and figure out what direction you want to take it. At some point you will absolutely have to address the root situation, but on a 70 year old tree with sentimental value that might be better done with an expert helping you.

If it were me i'd probably try to rake the roots out a little bit and get it back into a larger container or grow box with good bonsai soil, even if it isn't the forever home. Then maybe next year or the year after you can put together a plan to address the roots and get it into a smaller pot.

I know it's not the same species but a lot of guys use grow boxes on these larger trees when they are developing them:


Either way, sorry for your loss and best luck with the tree, its' super cool!
 
Thank you for the advice. I had thought about putting it into a larger container and let more roots closer to the base grow before continued chopping of large roots. I have large 30 gal fabric pots that would work.

I do want to get it back into its pot in the future, but do not need to rush it and possibly damage or kill it. It has its shape- only thing I want to do is reduce the leaf size. It does have 3 side stems that are dead which she left so the spots did not look empty. Not sure if I should cut them off or leave for the same reason. 😁

If anyone also has suggestions on how far back to cut the branches. I love the shape of them so would prefer not to chop too much more off.
 
Welcome to Crazy!

Reckon that's how you make a Sweetgum taste like a pickle!

Best.

Sorce
 
@Sweetyness - you are near Huntington, Ted Matson is the bonsai professional within the shortest drive of you that I am familiar with. This tree is old enough and well enough developed that it would be well worth your while to bring in a professional like Ted. Ted Matson is the bonsai curator at the Huntington Library, Huntington California. I don't have his personal phone number with me. A call to the Library will get you to his office.
 
I did more chipping away at the root ball last night. Even though in the photos it may look like it should be easy to scrape out dirt- it is not. It is like scraping into a brick wall with only a half inch or so coming off at a line. What bothers me is the faint smell of rotten earth, and it seems the roots I am cutting away are dead, and a bit soggy. I know it was not draining well. Even though there were leaf buds sprouting before I started trimming, I have not seen any white new root growth. Maybe they were in the root mat around the Inside of the pot.

What I would prefer is to get more of the compacted soil out from the base to help it not retain water. I am afraid of root rot. Further thoughts on how I proceed are welcomed!
(I do have it placed in a larger container with soil around it in-between working on it. Thanks! E81B98B9-7D60-4485-99A9-E0944F1C6A91.jpeg08FD4119-42C8-46AD-B2A4-9611FD83B330.jpegAC6E1EF6-25F2-47A1-A54F-56564A566143.jpeg47C02A09-F610-4DC4-8DDE-025A905C6C93.jpeg48E3C49C-97BA-4474-9551-C2821E7D3F92.jpeg
 
I think a 30 gal fabric container would be too big to reduce the root ball again before placing into a bonsai pot. I think a Rootpouch brand #15 or #20 should be plenty big for it and it will help produce fine root ramification instead of the circling you have with the pot. Home Depot and Lowes carry them, I order from Lowes and receive them usually within 3-5 days from the day of the order. They ship out of Oregon. I use the grey one, as the black one is hard to find.

 
I would strongly advise you to build a box for the tree to let it recover for 1-2 years. Just big enough for 2” or so around the sides of the rootball. You don’t want a container that is too large.

This is a nice and old tree - good luck!
 
Hey, I’ve got a few sweetgum myself. First, what a beauty you have. Great overall size. Good news is they’re a tough tree- I’ve collected them with nearly all roots removed and no foliage, and they throw out roots like a champ. I agree with the above comments- it may be like concrete, but you’ve got to get through that and get the roots exposed to see what you’re working with. If it’s rotted, cut it out, and pay attention to where in the root mass it is rotted. My suggestion would be to order a good sized Anderson flat (I have a few that are three inches deep that will accommodate the depth you need, and I have my liquidambar in them currently) so that you can get some good soil and good root growth in the next year or two.

one point about liquidambar- don’t prune before they leaf out. If you remove the terminal bud, they have a tendency to drop entire branches. I don’t know if yours will with severe root pruning, but I would be concerned if you’ve got a lot of rotted roots that it won’t start shedding branches.
 
@Sweetyness - you are near Huntington, Ted Matson is the bonsai professional within the shortest drive of you that I am familiar with. This tree is old enough and well enough developed that it would be well worth your while to bring in a professional like Ted. Ted Matson is the bonsai curator at the Huntington Library, Huntington California. I don't have his personal phone number with me. A call to the Library will get you to his office.
Thank you. I have visited tnhe Huntington Bonsai gardens and after I found out I would be gifted this tree in fall 2020 did reserach the Huntington Bonsai master, But that was before I received the tree and during the pandemic when their classes were closed. (Thought I could meet in person to discuss the tree.) Not sure why I forgot to try that contact again now that things have opened up. Thank you for this information and reminder! I apporedciate it! (I actually plan on gifting the tree to the Huntington Bonsai gardens in my estate.)
 
I think a 30 gal fabric container would be too big to reduce the root ball again before placing into a bonsai pot. I think a Rootpouch brand #15 or #20 should be plenty big for it and it will help produce fine root ramification instead of the circling you have with the pot. Home Depot and Lowes carry them, I order from Lowes and receive them usually within 3-5 days from the day of the order. They ship out of Oregon. I use the grey one, as the black one is hard to find.

Thank you for this advice- so helpful. I found the same Root Pouches on Amazion and can receive them on Sat. :)
 
I would strongly advise you to build a box for the tree to let it recover for 1-2 years. Just big enough for 2” or so around the sides of the rootball. You don’t want a container that is too large.

This is a nice and old tree - good luck!
Thank you! I see many bonsai keepers use the boxes, but in using the fabric containers instead of wood planters for my vegetable garden last year the results were impressive. Since the aeration is helpful to root growth, I think I will try a 15 gal "root pouch". Of course they are not as pretty as wood boxes by far, but my hope is to get it back into its ceramic pot and pedestal once it has a healty root system. Thank you!
 
Hey, I’ve got a few sweetgum myself. First, what a beauty you have. Great overall size. Good news is they’re a tough tree- I’ve collected them with nearly all roots removed and no foliage, and they throw out roots like a champ. I agree with the above comments- it may be like concrete, but you’ve got to get through that and get the roots exposed to see what you’re working with. If it’s rotted, cut it out, and pay attention to where in the root mass it is rotted. My suggestion would be to order a good sized Anderson flat (I have a few that are three inches deep that will accommodate the depth you need, and I have my liquidambar in them currently) so that you can get some good soil and good root growth in the next year or two.

one point about liquidambar- don’t prune before they leaf out. If you remove the terminal bud, they have a tendency to drop entire branches. I don’t know if yours will with severe root pruning, but I would be concerned if you’ve got a lot of rotted roots that it won’t start shedding branches.
Thanks! I think many of the pencil size roots may be dead, and skin starting to be somewhat soft- but I have not found any mushy ones yet. But I smell the start of decay in places (if that makes sense). I did wait for the tree to start budding before starting the repot. I trimmed the branches back some, but there are still buds left and they look fine (so far). I'm glad to hear you say to keep digging into the compacted dirt- that is my choice- get all of it broken up and remove the junk so I can replace with a good bonsai soil mix. I needed support from more knowledgeable than myself to make sure I would not cause irreputable damage. I would hate to endanger this beauty that has survived so many years! I feel like I am the guardian to ensure its health so it can continue to thrive for many more years. Plus it brings me great joy to sit beside and admire - also helps me feel close to my cousin. 🥰 Thank you.
 
Thanks! I think many of the pencil size roots may be dead, and skin starting to be somewhat soft- but I have not found any mushy ones yet. But I smell the start of decay in places (if that makes sense). I did wait for the tree to start budding before starting the repot. I trimmed the branches back some, but there are still buds left and they look fine (so far). I'm glad to hear you say to keep digging into the compacted dirt- that is my choice- get all of it broken up and remove the junk so I can replace with a good bonsai soil mix. I needed support from more knowledgeable than myself to make sure I would not cause irreputable damage. I would hate to endanger this beauty that has survived so many years! I feel like I am the guardian to ensure its health so it can continue to thrive for many more years. Plus it brings me great joy to sit beside and admire - also helps me feel close to my cousin. 🥰 Thank you.

Hey, I’ve got a few sweetgum myself. First, what a beauty you have. Great overall size. Good news is they’re a tough tree- I’ve collected them with nearly all roots removed and no foliage, and they throw out roots like a champ. I agree with the above comments- it may be like concrete, but you’ve got to get through that and get the roots exposed to see what you’re working with. If it’s rotted, cut it out, and pay attention to where in the root mass it is rotted. My suggestion would be to order a good sized Anderson flat (I have a few that are three inches deep that will accommodate the depth you need, and I have my liquidambar in them currently) so that you can get some good soil and good root growth in the next year or two.

one point about liquidambar- don’t prune before they leaf out. If you remove the terminal bud, they have a tendency to drop entire branches. I don’t know if yours will with severe root pruning, but I would be concerned if you’ve got a lot of rotted roots that it won’t start shedding branches.
(my second reply) Also I have a question about one your suggestion of a 3" deep flat- I don't think that will be deep enough for this tree. The pot it will go back into is 8.5" deep to the soil line, and the root ball since I cut it is about 6.5-7". I can cut more down as I keep cleaning out the dirt- but my guess with a tree this size I should leave at least 5" depth of the thick roots? Let me know if I am wrong. The trunk circumference measured about 1.5" up from the dirt is 14.25". I would think it should not have too shallow of a root base? Thanks again.
 
(my second reply) Also I have a question about one your suggestion of a 3" deep flat- I don't think that will be deep enough for this tree. The pot it will go back into is 8.5" deep to the soil line, and the root ball since I cut it is about 6.5-7". I can cut more down as I keep cleaning out the dirt- but my guess with a tree this size I should leave at least 5" depth of the thick roots? Let me know if I am wrong. The trunk circumference measured about 1.5" up from the dirt is 14.25". I would think it should not have too shallow of a root base? Thanks again.
Yeah that would be too shallow for you. But there may be other products or pouches out there that will work for this tree. As others have stated, the important thing is getting it to develop new roots and some vigor over the next 1-2 years without planting it in too big or deep a pot
 
The problem with pouches in this case is that they are obviously not rigid, and there isn't a good way to tie the tree in.

While it develops new roots any jostling from wind or handling risks breaking off the new, delicate root growth, and will be very detrimental to restoring health.

I highly suggest a grow box - and soon. I wouldn't want to keep dragging out this work over days. I know it might be tough, but I'd sit down and try to finish the work as soon as possible.

A box can be made the correct size and depth for the tree, and you can wire it in so it is stable.
 
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