Hello…..Chinese elm needing advice please

[Deanokos]

Hello there, new to the forums, I’m in Nw uk and been into bonsai for years now, mainly outdoor trees and have much success with these, however, my family bought me a big Chinese elm from a garden centre in July of this year….it was in full leaf and seemed happy. I gave it a light trim and watered it when it needed it. I keep this tree indoors and take it outside when a bright sunny day. I have had Chinese elms in the past but alas lost them because of leaving them outside for winter…foolish I know but I’m learning as I go along, this new one predominantly lives indoors…
it started dropping the odd leaf here and there but was shooting out new ones along the way so not concerning….. however, now it’s dropped most of its leaves and is still budding here and there and shooting out new leaves but I’m so worried that it’s not happy.
like I said it’s kept indoors, not near a radiator, in a cool room with skylights so plenty daylight. I know that chi ease elms are deciduous and should drop their leaves once a year ….is this correct ? I know I have a lot to learn.
the two pictures I have attached are how the tree was when it first arrived in July and the second is now ….
any advice would be very very greatfully recieved …..
thankyou in advance.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I live in US zone 7 and mine (5) stay outside year round. Chinese elms are cold hardy down to zone 4-9 so as long as they are protected can take a lot of cold. In the UK your zones would be 6-9 so no reason they should not survive. I group them together and mulch them to protect from cold swings and so far no problems. I imagine your tree is suffering because you turned on the heat and the hunidity in the house dropped. Put a gravel tray under the tree and keep it wet and try light misting. You can check your UK zones here:

https://www.gardenia.net/guide/hardiness-zones-in-the-united-kingdom#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20not%20sure,ideas%20for%20your%20geographic%20area.&text=The%20United%20Kingdom%20lies%20in,variations%20across%20regions%20and%20seasons.

 

[Shibui]

Chinese elms are sold as indoor bonsai but the reality is that it is quite difficult to keep them alive and healthy indoors. Only the very best indoor plant growers seem to manage it.
I am surprised to hear you lost one outside. They are usually quite cold hardy as mentioned above. Maybe something else caused the last one to die? Constantly wet roots can cause problems for Chinese elms. Given the fine particle soil mix that some sellers use that could be a possible cause.
How cold does it get in your area in winter?

I've found that regularly moving trees to different locations is not good. The tree constantly needs to recalibrate leaves to different UV and light levels so does not settle down to photosynthesize properly.

Check that the soil is not staying too wet.
Check that the soil has not been real dry, even for a single day.
Check light levels - any tree will need a very bright spot indoors. What we as humans consider adequate light is often not enough for trees. Most success relies on additional lighting to bring light levels up to plant acceptable brightness indoors.
The tree could just be confused about the time of year. They are semi-deciduous so will drop leaves in Autumn in most cooler regions. It may have felt the coming winter and dropped leaves but moving indoors has triggered new growth.

Unfortunately there's so many variables at play it is really hard to narrow the possibilities down to just one or 2.
Good luck with your tree.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I keep my Elms outdoors all year around without any problems (USDA zone 8B).

More info about the Ulmus / Elm can be found on the website of Harry Harrington from the UK.
Link: https://bonsai4me.com/speciesguides/ulmus-elm-bonsai/

 

[rockm]

Hello there, new to the forums, I’m in Nw uk and been into bonsai for years now, mainly outdoor trees and have much success with these, however, my family bought me a big Chinese elm from a garden centre in July of this year….it was in full leaf and seemed happy. I gave it a light trim and watered it when it needed it. I keep this tree indoors and take it outside when a bright sunny day. I have had Chinese elms in the past but alas lost them because of leaving them outside for winter…foolish I know but I’m learning as I go along, this new one predominantly lives indoors…
it started dropping the odd leaf here and there but was shooting out new ones along the way so not concerning….. however, now it’s dropped most of its leaves and is still budding here and there and shooting out new leaves but I’m so worried that it’s not happy.
like I said it’s kept indoors, not near a radiator, in a cool room with skylights so plenty daylight. I know that chi ease elms are deciduous and should drop their leaves once a year ….is this correct ? I know I have a lot to learn.
the two pictures I have attached are how the tree was when it first arrived in July and the second is now ….
any advice would be very very greatfully recieved …..
thankyou in advance.

Chinese elm SHOULD be kept outdoors. There is no such thing as an "indoor bonsai." There are only tree species that can tolerate the harsh indoor conditions. Those are tropical in origin. Chinese elm is NOT a tropical. It should outside all the time. I've kept them here in Zone 7 Virginia for decades outdoors. Your trees did not die from being outside.

They likely died from the conditions you kept them in or they were subject to. Those conditions probably revolve around inadequate soil and drainage in the winter. The soil your new acquisition is in is bad, for instance (Not your fault. Sellers of mass produced bonsai like this one typically use cheap soil to cut costs). That soil is broken down and probably doesn't drain well. Soggy conditions over winter can kill roots.

 

[Deanokos]

Hi all thanks so much for the replies so far, what is becoming clear is that I should keep the tree outdoors, I lost an elm last year to the winter as I didn’t mulch them or anything and one night the frost was exceptionally cold, about minus 8-10 and I think this is what nailed it. However, I didn’t check soil for drainage etc before winter set in…like I say, I have a lot to learn. The trees I’m used to are oak ( I have hundreds of these at various ages as I have a hug oak tree in garden that gives me loads of new young trees every year)…these are virtually indestructible…...sycamore, again loads of these and a few maples but never had an elm before and I don’t want to cause it harm. So, I’m going to move the tree outdoors and get some nice loose new soil for it, ( is it wise to repot now? Or wait ?) and then apart from mulching if temp drops and watering if no rain I’ll just leave it be and see how it fairs ….. does that sound reasonable for it ?
again, many thanks for all your replies so far the advice is great.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Hi all thanks so much for the replies so far, what is becoming clear is that I should keep the tree outdoors, I lost an elm last year to the winter as I didn’t mulch them or anything and one night the frost was exceptionally cold, about minus 8-10 and I think this is what nailed it. However, I didn’t check soil for drainage etc before winter set in…like I say, I have a lot to learn. The trees I’m used to are oak ( I have hundreds of these at various ages as I have a hug oak tree in garden that gives me loads of new young trees every year)…these are virtually indestructible…...sycamore, again loads of these and a few maples but never had an elm before and I don’t want to cause it harm. So, I’m going to move the tree outdoors and get some nice loose new soil for it, ( is it wise to repot now? Or wait ?) and then apart from mulching if temp drops and watering if no rain I’ll just leave it be and see how it fairs ….. does that sound reasonable for it ?
again, many thanks for all your replies so far the advice is great.

I would go slow on moving it outside, especially if it is very cold there as a sudden shock could finish it off. If you have a unheated garage or shed you could put it there at night until it has adjusted to the change.

 

[Baku1875]

I've found that regularly moving trees to different locations is not good. The tree constantly needs to recalibrate leaves to different UV and light levels so does not settle down to photosynthesize properly.

This is something that I am learning this year. Due to the angle of the sun, a lot of my bougies suddenly dropped leaves and I began to move them around too much to get more light on them. The ones that I didn't move adapted, the ones that I moved too much suffered.

Underrated principle- don't move the trees to much!

 

[Shibui]

( is it wise to repot now? Or wait ?)

After a few bad experiences with winter root prune on Chinese elms I suspect it may be a little late to root prune Chinese elm in UK now. If there was time for some more growth to heal the cuts and grow some new roots it would be OK but they don't seem to do well with wounded roots in cold, wet soil. Just replacing the soil without cutting many roots might be OK but avoiding broken roots is not always possible.
Try to manage soil moisture as best you can outside through winter and repot in spring.

 

[CarpenterDiaz7]

Many great replies here, I think what most have stated is right as far as getting it back to health and for future care. Love this place

 

[Deanokos]

Update ……. Tree has had a flush of new leaves which I am so glad about…. Question is now, what shall I do about trimming the longest shoots ? Normally with all my other trees I pinch out the new leaf at the tip and this encourages more buds lower down, not sure if this is the case with Chinese elms …. am I correct ? I should be pinching them out to encourage more buds ?
many thanks