Growing Ezo Spruce from Seed
- Thread starter baazzaa
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Ezzo Spruce is an enigmatic issue. You can buy Ezzo Spruce seeds, which is actually Black Ezzo Spruce which is not the same Ezzo Spruce you see in bonsai books. There is a long convoluted story about how this confusion started I will share if you desire but you should know that the Spruce you are really looking for is Sahkilin Spruce, Picea Ghlenii. You might be able to find this seed source, and you may not. I stopped growing from seed a number of years ago so I am not sure the seed is still available. There are a lot of things about this tree that the Department of Agriculture seems to be opposed to and the fact that I have not, in many years I have been doing this, seen for sale any where, Sahkilin/Ezzo Spruce. This tells me that either the seed is not available or the seedlings have a very low survivability rate.
Don't let any of this stop you. Growing from seed is fun and can be profitable as long as you don't expect anything awe inspiring short of twenty years. The Black Ezzo is still a nice tree just not what you think it is. I would encourage you to go for it.
Don't let any of this stop you. Growing from seed is fun and can be profitable as long as you don't expect anything awe inspiring short of twenty years. The Black Ezzo is still a nice tree just not what you think it is. I would encourage you to go for it.
Thats interesting,strange that they arent not available,I havent looked yet,Ill have a look sure and see what pops up,growing from seed is new to me so im trawling from information at the moment,I take it you cany just pop them in a pot and start watering,Is there seeds you can buy that are ready to pot.reading stuff on net about putting them in bowls of water and in the fridgeand stuff,
thanks for the advice
thanks for the advice
satsuki
Sapling
I wouldn't mind hearing the story. (Maybe in a new thread?)
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
The old Ezzo Spruce shown in the bonsai books are for the most part collected before WWII from Shakilan Island, one of the Northern most islands in the chain. Since WWII Shakilan Island has been in the hands of the Russians who do not seem to be too willing to relinquish it back to Japan understanding that they now have a fairly significant military sight there.
As is the case with a lot of trees we have imported from Japan there always seems to be a problem with language conversion and terminology. As I pointed out, the Ezzo Spruce in the books is actually Japanese Red Spruce or Shakilan Spruce. The generic Ezzo Spruce is actually the Japanese Black spruce, or sometimes called Eddo Spruce. There seems to be a problem with this tree and the EPA, or department of agriculture, I forget now which it is. It is however forbidden to import this tree from Japan. There are a few trees you cannot even get the seeds from and I think this is one of them. That should be easy to check out if you look at Schumacher (sp?) seeds, they used to have an on line catalog. Be warned, Spruce seeds are very small.
I just checked: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...fvJnlEX6Fji0n36aQ&sig2=Mq9WAZZS6_7RQtS19hqV-Q
They are pretty expensive $83.00 an ounce.
As is the case with a lot of trees we have imported from Japan there always seems to be a problem with language conversion and terminology. As I pointed out, the Ezzo Spruce in the books is actually Japanese Red Spruce or Shakilan Spruce. The generic Ezzo Spruce is actually the Japanese Black spruce, or sometimes called Eddo Spruce. There seems to be a problem with this tree and the EPA, or department of agriculture, I forget now which it is. It is however forbidden to import this tree from Japan. There are a few trees you cannot even get the seeds from and I think this is one of them. That should be easy to check out if you look at Schumacher (sp?) seeds, they used to have an on line catalog. Be warned, Spruce seeds are very small.
I just checked: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...fvJnlEX6Fji0n36aQ&sig2=Mq9WAZZS6_7RQtS19hqV-Q
They are pretty expensive $83.00 an ounce.
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satsuki
Sapling
Thanks for taking the time to share that.
Alain BERTRAND
Mame
According to the Japanese wikipedia page, the confusion that Vance Wood relates comes not from the translation but from a relaxed use by the Japanese themselves.
By the way, ezo should by transcribed with only one "z".
By the way, ezo should by transcribed with only one "z".
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I would not disagree with you, but it still boils down to a confusion over terms and translations. Spelling? Who really cares? As to Wikipedia, you have to be careful about this site because it is often the disseminator of wrong information by groups of people that have the same wrong idea. Just an observation.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
From Brent's website: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/malus.htm
P. glehnii = Sachalin Spruce
P. jezoensis = Ezo Spruce
"A word of caution about Yezo spruce and Sachalin spruce: There is a great deal of confusion surrounding the naming of these two species, especially in the use of the common names. Many bonsai artists speak of 'Yezo Spruce' when the plant to which they are referring is actually P. glehnii. We cannot be responsible for how people use common names. We guarantee that our plants are in fact named correctly botanically, so please try to determine which species it is that you would like to order. In general, P. glehnii is the smaller, slower growing species of the two with needle length about 1/2 inch, and dark green. It can be difficult to grow. Most of the time, when people ask for "Ezo Spruce" they really want P. glehnii. Picea jezoensis, also called Ezo Spruce or Edo Spruce or Yeddo Spruce, is slightly larger, faster growing with green needles from about 3/4 to 1 inch long. Picea jezoensis hondoensis, or Hondo Spruce, has slightly bluish green needles of about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long and is the fastest growing of the three, and more widely adaptable. Picea orientalis actually has the shortest needles of the three, and grows strongly and densely despite its diminuative habit. The branchlets are a bit more angular than the others. "
P. glehnii = Sachalin Spruce
P. jezoensis = Ezo Spruce
"A word of caution about Yezo spruce and Sachalin spruce: There is a great deal of confusion surrounding the naming of these two species, especially in the use of the common names. Many bonsai artists speak of 'Yezo Spruce' when the plant to which they are referring is actually P. glehnii. We cannot be responsible for how people use common names. We guarantee that our plants are in fact named correctly botanically, so please try to determine which species it is that you would like to order. In general, P. glehnii is the smaller, slower growing species of the two with needle length about 1/2 inch, and dark green. It can be difficult to grow. Most of the time, when people ask for "Ezo Spruce" they really want P. glehnii. Picea jezoensis, also called Ezo Spruce or Edo Spruce or Yeddo Spruce, is slightly larger, faster growing with green needles from about 3/4 to 1 inch long. Picea jezoensis hondoensis, or Hondo Spruce, has slightly bluish green needles of about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long and is the fastest growing of the three, and more widely adaptable. Picea orientalis actually has the shortest needles of the three, and grows strongly and densely despite its diminuative habit. The branchlets are a bit more angular than the others. "
BonsaiEngineer1493
Yamadori
Hey, I was wondering if you attempted it? if yes, I would be interesting in hearing your process. I recently purchased some and now I'm trying to gather up info.
If there ever was a war of botanical classification standards, this is it. Very insightful subject, and I learned something today. I also am reminded of my jealousy towards hobbyist in colder climates and their ability to propagate such species. Alas, I can dream.
Neli
Omono
BonsaiEngineer1493
Yamadori
Neil,
Did you grow it from seed?
Did you grow it from seed?
Neli
Omono
Ezo is most of the time grown from seed...cuttings are very hard ...if ever...
This one is from seed but I got it some time ago.
This one is from seed but I got it some time ago.
JoeR
Masterpiece
Hey Neli,
Do you still have this tree? If so, I would love to know how old it is and maybe an update if possible please. I would really appreciate it; these things have been quite the mystery with no information to be found anywhere.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You don't find much information on them because they are just about as rare as Maritan Cranberries. If the tree is not available there is not much reason to have an abundance of information on them.
Maybe also because they grow so slow, so it takes long time before you have something worthy of selling. I bet someone somewhere in us is growing them.
Someone told me once you can assume they thicken about 1mm per year.
In a small pot probably even less.
Here is one of mine, not from seed though, probably around 30 years or more
Someone told me once you can assume they thicken about 1mm per year.
In a small pot probably even less.
Here is one of mine, not from seed though, probably around 30 years or more
dick benbow
Omono
P glehnii has a special spot in my heart/soul. I spent three years in the japanese city of Wakkanai. I hired a boat to take the 3 hr journey to the russian island from where they came. roughest boat ride i ever took.
I've been seeking printed info on the species and find that minature trees and landscapes as well as forrest,landscape and ezo spruce are older books with info on the subject. both by japanese authors.
initially it might be easier to make starts from cuttings then seed, as research with americans who apprenticed in japan nurseries that grew them, did it that way.
Either way, seed or starts from clippings, I encourage you to make the effort.
I've been seeking printed info on the species and find that minature trees and landscapes as well as forrest,landscape and ezo spruce are older books with info on the subject. both by japanese authors.
initially it might be easier to make starts from cuttings then seed, as research with americans who apprenticed in japan nurseries that grew them, did it that way.
Either way, seed or starts from clippings, I encourage you to make the effort.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I struck 27 cuttings from my ezo when I pruned it in September 2014. 8 are still alive; they didn't grow all year, but the foliage is still green. It will be interesting to see what they do in the spring.
