Ginko help plz...

[fredman]

I'm not fimiliar with Ginko, so I thought i'll reach out with some questions.
This one has been in a HUGE garden pot for a long time. A year ago I smashed the pot to get it out. Sawed off and removed all the soil and big roots. Planted it in bonsai mix and it bounced back really well.
Now its time to chop....but where...?
My idea for it is a flame style tree on the larger side...I love that.
I know they push suckers regularly....but i'm unsure if they sprout from the cut site...? I'll need shoots from higher up to create a flame style...
Any ideas or input would be appreciated.
The hight to the fork is just under a foot. Nebari is 5 inches...and it tapers to about 2.5 inches.

 

[rockm]

To do a flame style it will likely require cutting it off just below the “y” and starting branch structure from scratch. Don’t know if now is time to do that and ginkgo is notorious for not closing big pruning wounds

 

[Cadillactaste]

They don't heal wounds at all. So choose your front. So pruning cuts can be somewhat hidden.

A target PH levels of 6.5-7 will offer branches. Ryan Neil did a podcast and touched on it. He went to a ginkgo grower to address how difficult it can be to develop ginkgo for bonsai. As they are slow to produce branching.

My water is a PH 7. Mine has developed rather quickly in a short time frame. Now since hearing his podcast. I know why.

Best of luck to ya.

 

[fredman]

To do a flame style it will likely require cutting it off just below the “y” and starting branch structure from scratch. Don’t know if now is time to do that and ginkgo is notorious for not closing big pruning wounds

Thanks mate. I've been having a longer look at it. I don't think large is the best way for it. It don't really have the girth for it. I'm just about sure i'll take it back to round about half way up the trunk.

They don't heal wounds at all. So choose your front. So pruning cuts can be somewhat hidden.

A target PH levels of 6.5-7 will offer branches. Ryan Neil did a podcast and touched on it. He went to a ginkgo grower to address how difficult it can be to develop ginkgo for bonsai. As they are slow to produce branching.

My water is a PH 7. Mine has developed rather quickly in a short time frame. Now since hearing his podcast. I know why.

Best of luck to ya.

Thanks Darlene.
I also read in another thread you mentioned what Ryan Neil said about Ph for branching. I'm interested in doing that, but not to sure about putting a medium together to get to that Ph. Do you have any ideas?
I usually use 1/1/1 pumice, pine bark and zeolite. That should be slightly on the acidic side...not sure how much though. If I leave out the bark...it should be neutral...I think.
How to get to 6.5 is the question...maybe much less bark...?
You have some experience with Ginkos...do they sprout "readily" from beneath a chop site...?

 

[Adamski77]

I would add just one more thing... they grow extremely slow so developing new branching and the flame will take some years... it's worth to keep this in mind before you start chopping branches that took 10+ years to grow.
If this would be mine I would chop above the fork... pick thicker one and leave it longer than thinner one shorter (based on the photo they both look roughly the same diameter so matter of your judgment). And see where the suckers are going to come. Let winter is probably best timing to do this.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Do you know the PH in your water to start? Mine is 7 and it is happy in Clay King medium.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Do you know the PH in your water to start? Mine is 7 and it is happy in Clay King medium.

 

[fredman]

I would add just one more thing... they grow extremely slow so developing new branching and the flame will take some years... it's worth to keep this in mind before you start chopping branches that took 10+ years to grow.
If this would be mine I would chop above the fork... pick thicker one and leave it longer than thinner one shorter (based on the photo they both look roughly the same diameter so matter of your judgment). And see where the suckers are going to come. Let winter is probably best timing to do this.

Thanks for that mate.
Yes that was one of my options actually. Problem is the fork grows out at an extreme angle...45°, and it might look strange when it shoots and grows from there...
Also as I said to Rock...it don't really have the girth to do the flame from that high up.
I'll definitely do much more thinking and research before I decide.

Do you know the PH in your water to start? Mine is 7 and it is happy in Clay King medium.

Ofcourse...I can control my water Ph to whatever I want. Didn't think of that....but I would've got to that eventually.
Been thinking...I'll put the whole container into the vege garden after the chop. Its organic and at neutral Ph.

 

[Adamski77]

Thanks for that mate.
Yes that was one of my options actually. Problem is the fork grows out at an extreme angle...45°, and it might look strange when it shoots and grows from there...
Also as I said to Rock...it don't really have the girth to do the flame from that high up.
I'll definitely do much more thinking and research before I decide.

I can see that situation is tough... was thinking more in a way that if you leave two thicker branches you increase the chances of getting some reasonable suckers in good places and maybe leverage existing branches as next segment of main trunk. My mantra is always "you can always cut later... it's easy"

 

[fredman]

I can see that situation is tough... was thinking more in a way that if you leave two thicker branches you increase the chances of getting some reasonable suckers in good places and maybe leverage existing branches as next segment of main trunk. My mantra is always "you can always cut later... it's easy"

You're right. That is always the safest approach.

I just took this image off Google. This trunk seems to me has been chopped low down long ago...and a whole bunch of suckers has filled in.
This is precisely my vision for this tree.
That's why I asked the question....how readily does it bud after a chop....?
From what I could gather so far its not shy to throw shoots along the trunk.
If only I could be this lucky....!!!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

That's why I asked the question....how readily does it bud after a chop....?
From what I could gather so far its not shy to throw shoots along the trunk.

This has been my experience.

 

[Shibui]

Ginkgo bud from bare wood. Anywhere there was once a leaf node, which is right down the main trunk, has the potential to bud after pruning. Hard prune may also start some more suckers from the roots. Chop those to push more energy into the new shoots on the trunk.

Yes they are slow to ramify. Yes, cuts take a long time to heal, but that's no real excuse for aiming at a second rate bonsai. My opinion - chop below the fork. As a rule of thumb, estimate the finished size of your bonsai based on trunk diameter and then cut around 1/2 - 1/3 of that height to start new branches from there.

Acidifying fertiliser can help maintain pH below 7. For those of us that don't have access to Miracid and similar, Azalea fertilisers include Chelated Iron which helps lower pH.

 

[penumbra]

I also read in another thread you mentioned what Ryan Neil said about Ph for branching. I'm interested in doing that, but not to sure about putting a medium together to get to that Ph. Do you have any ideas?

Add a bit of Dolometic Limestone.

 

[hemmy]

I'm interested in doing that, but not to sure about putting a medium together to get to that Ph. Do you have any ideas?
I usually use 1/1/1 pumice, pine bark and zeolite. That should be slightly on the acidic side...not sure how much though.

As mentioned, your water pH and but importantly the buffering capacity of your water will drive your substrate pH long term. If your water is very alkaline (high alkalinity with bicarbonates and carbonates) it will move your substrate leachate pH more basic. But if you have low alkalinity, even if your pH is adjusted higher to protect your pipes, then the buffering capacity will be lower and your substrate leachate may stay less basic or more acidic.

Is one of these areas you? Because the alkalinity looks very low and you might benefit from the addition of agricultural lime to your mix. I’d still consider keeping an organic component if you are in a deeper container and trying for accelerated growth. It will help in water retention and CEC to bind nutrients.

What's in your water

www.wellingtonwater.co.nz

Here is another source noting the benefits of lime in growing ginkgo.

General Care For Ginkgo Trees

General Care For Ginkgo Trees In this Episode of the MrMaple Show, Tim and Matt talk about Ginkgo trees and some of the general care information, as well as some tips and tricks for taking care of Ginkgos. About Ginkgo Trees When we talk about Ginkgo trees, we're talking about Ginkgo Biloba, the...

mrmaple.com

 

[fredman]

Add a bit of Dolometic Limestone.

Yes that was exactly my plan.
My go to to grow out trees in the ground has always been...I drill holes all over the pot and place the pot into the soil....so the roots can run for at least 2 seasons.
With this one i'll add dolomitic lime in and around the hole. That should make the soil nice and sweet (as the old people used to say...)


Thank You to everybody. I'll do the right thing by this Ginko now...I feel.

 

[Betula1]

I dont understand why you would want to add dolomitic limestone as that would raise the pH not lower it, assuming you want a pH 6.5! ??

 

[fredman]

I dont understand why you would want to add dolomitic limestone as that would raise the pH not lower it, assuming you want a pH 6.5! ??

Yeah you have a point. Thinking about it....You've actually caught me out contradicting myself....
I've been assuming my organic vegetable garden (where I plan to put it into) is "balanced and neutral", but for the last few seasons things don't grow that well in there....so the Ph might actually not be what I presume.
I use my own home made composts on it....no dig.
I've been meaning to take soil samples, and have it lab tested. I'll get to that now.
I was thinking...to be sure the soil is on the alkaline side where the tree will be growing, i'll add dolomitic lime.

 

[Newish in Oregon]

Yeah you have a point. Thinking about it....You've actually caught me out contradicting myself....
I've been assuming my organic vegetable garden (where I plan to put it into) is "balanced and neutral", but for the last few seasons things don't grow that well in there....so the Ph might actually not be what I presume.
I use my own home made composts on it....no dig.
I've been meaning to take soil samples, and have it lab tested. I'll get to that now.
I was thinking...to be sure the soil is on the alkaline side where the tree will be growing, i'll add dolomitic lime.

Maybe just me but this feels like that line from Cool Hand Luke 'what we have here is a failure to communicate'

You do not want your soil alkaline if your objective is pH 6.5. pH higher than 7 is alkaline; lower than 7 is acidic

 

[fredman]

Haha...I don't fuss much about the 6.5 part anymore.
Ginko loves alkaline soil, and that's all i'm shooting for. The lime will do the sweetening...and the soil will do the buffering.